Feds execute "pre-emptive raid" on RNC protestors

http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/conventions/27793634.html?page=1&c=y - Minneapolis Star-Tribune

Almost a year to the day before the Republican National Convention began, members of a self-described anarchist group gathered to talk about ways to disrupt it, including kidnapping delegates, sabotaging air vents at the Xcel Energy Center, blocking bridges and "capturing federal buildings" in Minneapolis and St. Paul.

...
"An individual by the name of 'Henry' told the action camp group that he was throwing a liquid-filled balloon and that members of the group should stay away from the area ... because it would be very dangerous," the document said. "Henry stated the balloon was filled with a chemical that would be very dangerous and if caught, he would go to jail for a long time."

...
Another person talked about using large puppets to conceal and transport Molotov cocktails, bricks, caltrops (devices used to stop buses and other vehicles), shields and lockboxes, the affidavit said. They also planned to throw marbles under the horses of mounted police to trip the horses.

...
The affidavit also said that group e-mails from the Welcoming Committee talked about leaving abandoned or overturned vehicles at intersections, pulling a single officer from a police line and beating them, using liquid sprayers filled with urine or chemicals, "unarresting" techniques to free people arrested by police, obtaining fake credentials and dozens of other tactics.

...
In addition to buckets of urine, investigators seized homemade devices used to disable buses and other vehicles, weapons, gas masks, flammable liquids and rags that could be used to make Molotov cocktails, computer storage devices, documents, pamphlets and banners.
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Welcome to the police state!

Everyone seems to be painting with a pretty broad brush here. There are probably folks that deserved to be arrested for destroying property. Still, the OP was about "pre-emptive raids". Whether or not these are justified under the "conspiracy" statutes remains to be seen. But, this is a strawman, advanced by folks who want to defend official actions. I bet 99% of the charges are dropped. I'll be very surprised if a conspiracy trial ever takes place.

In the raids we're discussing, police seized property without charging anyone..again. This practice is becoming mainstream...let's not forget the the Cavalry Arms Debacle, which was what, last February? Severe punishment for the officials who orchestrated that one, eh? Not! :mad:

Other troubling "convention protocols" that are cause for concern:

1. Arresting anyone on dubious charges, stretching out the booking process as long as possible (until the event is over). Then, dropping the charges. We only notice when the arrestee is a journalist, and the video evidence is not destroyed/confiscated.

2. Using the multi-jurisdictional aspect to create confusion, and to avoid taking responsibility for the official misconduct (aka finger pointing). Makes subsequent lawsuits difficult to pursue.

3. Keeping records secret. Affadavits, video footage, reports etc., withheld by police citing "security" concerns.

As others have mentioned, police abuse has been around since before the roman empire. It is becoming more refined and accepted in the modern age.

A decent synopsis, as practiced in New York during the 2004 RNC convention: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Republican_National_Convention_protest_activity
 
FireMax - I'm going to need a link to a reputable source if this thread is to remain open.

InfoWars=TinfoilHats
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Okay blues man. I saw this story on a main stream publication. I'll look for it and post a link.
 
Here is another link to a local newspaper story in St. Paul about the RNC raid...

http://www.startribune.com/politics/27695244.html?elr=KArks:DCiUMEaPc:UiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU

And here is a link at CNN...
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/08/30/rnc.protest/index.html

By Abby Simons, Heron Marquez Estrada and Bill McAuliffe, Star Tribune

Last update: August 30, 2008 - 6:26 PM

Ramsey County authorities conducted raids across Minneapolis and St. Paul Friday and Saturday as a pre-emptive strike against disruptive protests of the Republican National Convention.

Five people were arrested and more than 100 were handcuffed, questioned and released by scores of deputies and police officers, according to police and elected officials familiar with the raids.

In a statement Saturday morning, Ramsey County Sheriff Bob Fletcher said the St. Paul raid targeted the RNC Welcoming Committee, a group he described as "a criminal enterprise made up of 35 self-described anarchists...intent on committing criminal acts before and during the Republican National Convention."

"These acts include tactics to blockade and disable delegate buses, breaching venue security and injuring police officers," Fletcher said. Deputies seized a variety of items that they believed were tools of civil disobedience: a gas mask, bolt cutters, axes, slingshots, homemade "caltrops" for disabling buses, even buckets of urine.

But the raids drew immediate condemnation from activists and St. Paul City Councilman Dave Thune, whose district includes the former theater at 627 Smith Avenue South, which was rented by activists as a gathering space.

"This is not the way to start things off," Thune said Saturday morning. "This is sending the wrong message. Regardless of how you feel about these people...they had a right to be there."
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Other troubling "convention protocols" that are cause for concern:

1. Arresting anyone on dubious charges, stretching out the booking process as long as possible (until the event is over). Then, dropping the charges. We only notice when the arrestee is a journalist, and the video evidence is not destroyed/confiscated.

2. Using the multi-jurisdictional aspect to create confusion, and to avoid taking responsibility for the official misconduct (aka finger pointing). Makes subsequent lawsuits difficult to pursue.

3. Keeping records secret. Affadavits, video footage, reports etc., withheld by police citing "security" concerns.
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I mentioned the same in another thread. Here in Philadelphia, the authorities did the same thing 8 years ago and it has become the model for national conventions. Round up a bunch of people and then release them after the convention with charges dismissed in exchange for court fees.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9903E1D8163FF933A25751C1A9669C8B63

A few arrestees sued the city although I'm not sure if they won anything.




Trouble is, most of the people on these boards don't give a crap about what happens to a bunch of dirty commie hippies (and would probably like to see them shot) and don't seem to be considering that the same tactics could (and will) just as easily be used against them should they choose to use their rights to free speech and assembly against any future administrations.
 
Erik
The general federal conspiracy statute makes it a crime for "two or more persons [to] conspire . . . to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose." It is distinct from the substantive crime contemplated and is charged as a separate offense. Conspiracy is one of the most commonly charged federal crimes.
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I'm confused.... I thought conspiracies did not exist. ;)

Willie D
Trouble is, most of the people on these boards don't give a crap about what happens to a bunch of dirty commie hippies (and would probably like to see them shot) and don't seem to be considering that the same tactics could (and will) just as easily be used against them should they choose to use their rights to free speech and assembly against any future administrations.
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You're right Willie D.... so right.
 
"Various police forces and the fed have been infiltrating peace organizations for almost as long as Bush has been in office."
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Let's not make this about Bush. This type of thing happened under Clinton too. This is not a republican only issue. This is a federal government issue. Both reps and dems are in control of the federal government and both share the blame equally.
 
If the conspiracy to commit a crime did transpire, then these were NOT preemptive raids per se. They may be preemptive to the conspired illegal activity, but after the fact of the crime of conspiracy.
 
Unless "conspiracy to commit videotaping" is a crime, at least one of these was a preemptive raid by any possible definition.

"On Saturday afternoon, law agents surrounded 951 Iglehart Av. in St. Paul where members of I-Witness Video, a New York-based group that monitors police conduct during protests, were staying. They were detained and handcuffed but eventually freed without charges."

http://www.startribune.com/politics...yqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUs

I can't, obviously, provide a link to a TV story, but the local news reported on Saturday night that police seized their still and video cameras, and their computers.

And in other freedom-of-the-press news, the AP reports the arrests of journalists covering the protests on Monday:
AP photographer Matt Rourke was covering the protest when he was swept up by police moving in on a group of protesters in downtown St. Paul. Democracy Now! host Amy Goodman was arrested as she asked police in riot gear about the status of two producers who had been arrested, one of whom she had heard was bleeding. The producers also were released later.

David Ake, an AP assistant chief of bureau in Washington, said he was concerned by the arrest of Rourke, a Philadelphia-based photographer.

"Covering news is a constitutionally protected activity, and covering a riot is part of that coverage," Ake said. "Photographers should not be detained for covering breaking news."

Phil Carruthers, director of the prosecution division of the Ramsey County Attorney's Office, said Monday night that no charges against Rourke were anticipated. Rourke, held on a gross misdemeanor riot charge, was released early Tuesday. Goodman also was released without charges being filed against her.

Democracy Now! producers Sharif Abdel Kouddous and Nicole Salazar were arrested while they carried out their journalistic duties, Democracy Now! said in a statement. Democracy Now! said Kouddous and Salazar were arrested on a felony riot charge while Goodman was charged with misdemeanor obstruction of a legal process and interference with a peace officer.

All three appeared on Goodman's show on Tuesday and recounted their experience. A video of Goodman's arrest, aired on her program and also posted on YouTube, shows her begging police not to arrest her before being taken away in handcuffs.
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hksHDv1i55R2qYI6dkmMm10uxZ0AD92UQ8TG0
​

Yesterday, a peaceful protest sponsored by the Poor People's Economic Human Rights Campaign was tear-gassed. No one was being violent, or even disorderly -- this was just by way of "encouraging" them to disperse.
http://www.startribune.com/politics...77K_0c::D3aDhUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiU

The atmosphere here (Saint Paul) is frightening. It feels very much as if martial law has been unofficially declared. The city was basically locked down on Monday night: bridges across the Mississippi were closed, blocked off with DOT dump trucks. Returning from dinner with a friend, I had to make a nearly half-hour detour to get home via the Interstate bridge. I don't know what I'd have done if I'd been on a bike -- gone back to my friend's house, I guess.

Right now this doesn't feel very much like the country I thought I lived in, the one in which Constitutional rights like freedom of speech, of assembly, of the press, are protected.
 
Here is some information on one arrest. Seems like a conspiracy to commit charge and posession of bomb.

http://kstp.com/article/stories/S565926.shtml?cat=1

Mich. man charged for alleged Xcel bomb plan

A 23-year-old Michigan man faces up to 10 years in jail for illegally possessing bombs, which he allegedly intended to use to destroy the Xcel Energy Center during the Republican National Convention.

Matthew Bradley DePalma, of Flint, Mich., was charged Aug. 30 with one count of possession of firearms.

According to his criminal complaint, DePalma had several Molotov cocktails in his possession a week before the start of the RNC.

DePalma had been under investigation by federal investigators after he attended a protester conference in Wisconsin in July.

Officials said DePalma went to the Hennepin County Library on Aug. 18 to research how to make ‘special’ Molotov cocktails that would stick to people and other targets.

Investigators recorded a conversation that DePalma had with another individual, where he described his plans to disrupt the RNC by causing a power outage and lighting police officers on fire.
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Some additional information. It seems that The National Lawyer's Guild is defending many of those arrested so they also are not an unbiased source of information. The warrents for the searches were based on undercover informant's testimony.

http://www.twincities.com/ci_10365754


Sheriff's investigation: Anarchists discussed kidnapping delegates
By Emily Gurnon and Mara H. Gottfried
Pioneer Press
Article Last Updated: 09/03/2008 08:14:49 AM CDT


RelatedRNC Welcoming Committee
Read the full affidavitA year ago, the Ramsey County sheriff's office began looking closely at a group called the Republican National Convention Welcoming Committee.

What it found, according to an 18-page search warrant application and affidavit, led to weekend raids on two Minneapolis homes and a temporary St. Paul office for the self-described anarchist group.

According to the document, investigation learned:


The self-described anarchist group — whose main goal was to "crash" the Republican National Convention," according to its Web site — traveled to or communicated with affinity groups in 67 cities to recruit members and raise money.

Group members discussed the possibility of kidnapping delegates, blockading bridges, using liquid sprayers filled with urine or chemicals on police and throwing marbles to trip police and their horses.

At an "action camp" held from July 31 to Aug. 3 in Lake Geneva, Minn., one member talked of concealing inside giant puppets "materials" that could be used on the street. Others discussed the need for Molotov cocktails, paint, caltrops (devices used to puncture tires), bricks and lockboxes for protesters to lock themselves together.

Erik Oseland, one of the six group members arrested here, produced a video called "Video Map of the St. Paul Points of Interest." It included such major companies as Travelers Insurance and Qwest, hotels such as the Embassy Suites and the Crowne Plaza. Also included: the Pioneer Press building.
The main sources for the information were "regular surveillance" of the group and three people who posed as members — two informants and an undercover investigator. The informants monitored e-mails and conversations.

Geneva Finn of the National Lawyers Guild, which represents many of those arrested, said it was hard for her to weigh the evidence in the affidavit because "it's all based on the testimony of people who are not identified, and that's a real problem."
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My opinion? Taking away the rights of people I may not agree with is not acceptable to me for it may be my rights which are taken away next.
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This reminds me of a famous quote by a German Pastor named Martin Niemoller...

..."First the Nazis went after the Jews, but I was not a Jew, so I did not object...
Then they went after the Catholics, but I was not a Catholic, so I did not object... Then they went after the trade-unionists, but I was not a trade-unionist, so I did not object...Then they came after me, and there was no one left to object"...


Pastor Martin Niemoller was an outspoken critic of the Nazi Party in Germany during the 1930s, until Hitler had him arrested in 1937.
 
Clearly doing a preemptive raid on a group which was likely to commit major civil disruption and later releasing the group members, is exactly like what was done in Germany.

People keep making absurd comparisons.
 
For all of the folks who are not from St. Paul, that city and most of Ramsey county is run by democrats. It would be hard to blame the raids and the arrests on the Republicans. Sheriff Fletcher is pretty much a democrat. He formally protests, in writing, every CCW permit that he has to issue. Or at least he was doing that immediately after the passage of our CCW law, which was called the Minnesota Personal Protection Act or MPPA. Fletcher is no conservative.

That being said, if they had a good, solid, preponderance of evidence that these groups were planning on committing serious crimes, and they went to a judge and got a warrant to search them and the places they were staying, then I don't believe it's a violation of their rights, necessarily. If you are involved in the planning of committing a crime and there is evidence to prove that, you can be found guilty of conspiring to commit a crime. At least, I think that is the case.
 
Let's see, some folks were planning to riot and break things. Some folks got busted. Now they're whining and crying.

Okay, boo hoo.

Next topic please.

John
 
johnbt
Let's see, some folks were planning to riot and break things. Some folks got busted. Now they're whining and crying.

Okay, boo hoo.
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boo hoo until it happens to you for speaking out for something you believe in. The people in Nazi Germany also felt indifferent to the plight of those the Nazis first oppressed.
 
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