Federal Photo ID ?

All this discussion over the pros and (mostly) cons of a national ID card is mere spinning of wheels unless we consider the most important question:

Which passage of the U.S. Constitution grants authority for a national ID card program?

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"Anyone feel like saluting the flag which the strutting ATF and FBI gleefully raised over the smoldering crematorium of Waco, back in April of ‘93?" -Vin Suprynowicz
 
1. If I have nothing to hide then why not?

a. It's none of their business - which is why the 4th Amendment exists.

b. You may think you have nothing to hide - do you really want to have everything you do available for intense scrutiny? Do the words "fishing expidition" mean anything to you legally?

c. Do you really have nothing to hide? REALLY? Then kindly post your last 1040 form, medical records, and current bank statement. No? gee...why not? got something to hide?

2. What negative effect will a Federal ID have on a person that behaves in the way the government wants them to behave?

a. The gov't wants you to be a disarmed, taxpaying, obedient servant.

b. If you're here on TFL, you probably own guns. The gov't doesn't want you to. Can you see where this can go?

c. Why should you be subject to the way the gov't wants you to behave? Isn't the Constitution written to reverse this? (Laws against murder & theft are one thing; laws against keeping info private, or not having your ID card with you, are VERY different.)

3. What can we point to and say that is why I don't want a national ID card?

a. Everything that's bad about having credit cards, driver's license, SSN card, CCW permit, library card, video rental card, etc. ALL get rolled into a single efficient card that greatly smooths the way to oppression.

b. Legally, you no longer are you - you are the card. If you don't have a card, you don't exist...or maybe you're a criminal, and need to be locked up until your identity and intentions are verified.

In other word what will the sheep object to?

Ask the Jews who survived WWII.
And tell us all the information on all your cards in your wallet - and consider that such an action is less risky than a federal photo ID.
 
RH-please dont tell anyone else my birthday
some find it unsettling that those numbers are in it.
First its national citizen then its international citizen under the UN accord.
Hmmm me tinks we peacefully accepted socialism for the good of those in power way above us tax payers that dare practice personal responsibillity.
www.ccops.org www.gunowners.org www.jbs.org
leave the UN bring our troops home.

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"those who sacrifice
liberty for security deserve neither"
 
ernest2
Senior Member posted September 26, 2000 11:28 AM
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The US Constitution, Copyright 2000 by Al Gore,Warning!! All Rights Reserved By Federal Govt.
Any Attempt to Extercise any Constitutional Rights without express license
and payment of appropiate fees will incure severe fines and penitilies including incaracaration.
 
Any Attempt to Extercise any Constitutional Rights without express license
and payment of appropiate fees will incure severe fines and penitilies including incaracaration.

or DEATH BY FIRING SQUAD.

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"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary." - H.L. Mencken
 
National ID is extreme. Extreme population tracking and control.
They veiw us as cattle. We provide what they need to maintain their elitist lifestyles.

The various Federal Police wings keep the herd under control, eliminating "mad cows".

A mad cow reads the constitution and owns firearms.
 
I am very happy with the responses I have received so far. I know you all have a better understanding of these issues than I have. First I want to thank RH- Thanks for the quote although our beliefs may differ I have read the bible several times and think that is one of the best answers to give to most folks. Even if a person is not a Christian the passage hits home.

KAM_Indianapolis, You said, what would we gain or benefit from a national ID card. Well I hate to write the ad for the Government but.

Now with your new "Universal Card" there is no need to carry more. You can use the Universal Card for all cash transactions taken directly out of your checking or savings account. It will be a true benefit for Medical Emergency, medical providers and emergency workers will have direct access to your most needed medical records and profile incase your injured and unconscious. Your children will finally be safe, persons with children or parental consent to have a child in their care will have permission issued via this card. It will serve as a Video Card as well, "Thanks Ruger45" that's a good one, it will play well in the commercial. The easiest sell is "less hassle" sell. Finally I don't have to carry all those cards.

Trouble- you said if I am not a criminal now I will be then, well that is the slippery slope theory. Read this:
http://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/ss.htm

Well you and I know that in this case history proves it time and time again but to the common person it makes no sense.

The average age of the world's greatest civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; from spiritual faith to great courage; from courage to liberty; from liberty to abundance; from abundance to selfishness; from selfishness to complacency; from complacency to apathy; from apathy to dependence; from dependency back again into bondage. -by Fraser Tyler, English historian-Written while the U.S. was till a British colony.

They just don't see it. All they know is the law they want to pass is to help stop child molesters, and God knows everyone is against that. They will always point to the worst of humanity for the righteousness they need to set a new limit on personal freedom.

Brady- Yes it is a typical question that is why I have asked it. I have had discussions with some friends and acquaintances and pointing to Hitler does no good. They have no personal reference. The body of knowledge they have received is exactly as you have stated. They get it from school, TV and society in general. I can read the frustration between the lines, I have the same frustration. I just don't know how to get them to see it.

deanF- You said which passage of the US constitution grants the authority for a national ID card. The sheep blow that one away quickly. The US Constitution is a guide, a living breathing document. It is out dated and should be revised. They believe this wholly and completely, and the truth is some changes were necessary. We do allow women to vote now, and we don't count slaves as 2/3rds of a man. So if we can change those parts then why not change others.

Thanks again for your responses, I want to continue this until we come to some basic conclusion. I don't want to try to convert others that have hardened there position, so much as pull the fence sitters off the fence with the notion that free is better. Even if all we get is some folks that don't believe most of the crap sold to them. They have to start somewhere.

My question this time is how do we get the fence sitters to see reality?
 
Since when is it the "business" of government to make my life more convenient.

The federal government does not issue me a drivers license, or a bank account or credit, and does not provide me medical service. It is no business of theirs to be involved with such things. Giving the government more power than it already has will lead us to socialism.

My bank is my business not the governments
My health is my business not the governments
My video viewing habits are my business not the governments

"Those who would forsake liberty for safety, deserves neither" - the same holds true for conveniece.
 
The government big enough to give you everything you want
(carry permit,health care,child care, a place to live)
Is big enough to take it away.
And if you gave it to them you gave them the right to take it away.

www.ccops.org www.jbs.org



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"those who sacrifice
liberty for security deserve neither"
 
As I read down through the original posting and all the replys, I am reminded of two incidents several years ago, both of which say the same thing. So I'll only relate one.

My family was hosting a young man from (then West) Germany. During his stay, we took a driving trip from our home in Kansas to Disneyland in Orange County, CA. When we had returned home, I asked him what had most impressed him most about the trip. One thing was "how big America is" and the other - "we did not have to stop and show our papers to anyone" in all that distance - over 4500 miles. We later had a similar experience with a teenager from Spain and he was also impressed that we didn't have to show any papers to anyone. When I explained to them that we didn't have any papers to show, they were REALLY amazed.

We enjoy more freedom in this country than most other folks in the world even dream about, even with all the Clintons, Feinsteins, and Gores working overtime to stop it. I certainly hope that we NEVER have to "go to the mattresses" to defend those freedoms, but we should be prepared mentally, for that eventuality. The entire rest of the world should serve as an example of what will happen to us if we don't.

May God help us if ANY government tries to issue us "papers" - ID's.

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If "the people" in the 1st, 4th, 9th & 10th amendments, means "the people", why do some folks think "the people" in the 2nd amendment means "the state"?
 
One could argue that we already have National IDs issued by regional sub-headquarters and entered into a nationally-accessed grouping of data bases.

I refer to our state driver's licenses and (as in Texas) identification cards. You usually need ID to cash a check and now you need one to travel by air or to vote, etc....
 
Trouble,DITTO, sidewaye eh? :D

Locknload said about all I was thinking among others so will just add a smart ass line.

I dont want to be hassled with the National ID card, I could lose it. I would much rather have the biometric implant with dna on file with the authorities, I would also like audio/video systems in my home transmitting 24-7 to those same authorities to protect me from thieves and maybe myself if I ever go insane, not to mention the children it could shelter from violence, in the case of my impending insanity.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Now with your new "Universal Card" there is no need to carry more. You can use the Universal Card for all cash transactions taken directly out of your checking or savings account. It will be a true benefit for Medical Emergency, medical providers and emergency workers will have direct access to your most needed medical records and profile incase your injured and unconscious. Your children will finally be safe, persons with children or parental consent to have a child in their care will have permission issued via this card. It will serve as a Video Card as well, "Thanks Ruger45" that's a good one, it will play well in the commercial. The easiest sell is "less hassle" sell. Finally I don't have to carry all those cards.[/quote]

Very disturbing.

What if I don't have a bank account? Will I be required to get one? What if I want to continue to use worthless yet respected american cash, or barter? Verboten?

"Your children will finally be safe . . . " Gee, where have we heard that before? A little plastic card is not going to protect anyone's children. "He raped the child, and he didn't have the right ID card? Well, that's a whole 'nother matter. Now he's going away for a year instead of six months." A national ID card with "parental endorsement for human child unit XC67Y44216" would provide no more protection for unit XC67Y44216 than does a restraining order issued against a wife beater or other harasser.

The "Less hassle" factor: I want the hassle associated with various pieces of plastic. It's the "don't put all your eggs in one basket" theory. The more cards I have for individual purposes, the less likely it is that some criminal can steal the access associated with those cards. No matter how secure this national ID card would be advertised as, criminals would have their way with it.
 
I know people in their 50's and 60's that have never had a SS# and don't have addresses either that do quite well for themselves. Yet they are not hidden from view, they have nice houses and cars. They wouldn't submit to a national ID system, you can bank on that. And there are a lot more of those than you might think.
 
"What negative effect will a Federal ID have on a person that behaves in the way the government wants them to behave?"

Holy Smoke!
 
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