Federal Fusions

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NHSHOOTER

New member
I just saw that Federal is now selling Federal Fusions bullets for us to reload. I know they are a cup and core bullet so my question is, where would most of you go for data for said bullets?
 
The Fusion is not really a cup and core bullet. Its more like a hard cast plated bullet. The Fusion rifle is the Speer Golddot. Use Speer data. If you push them too fast, they pattern instead of group.
 
Fusions are bonded bullets, not cup and core. The tip is skivved after the bonding process in rifle calibers. And they have a boat tail. In pistol, they’re similar to the gold dot, but usually softnose hunting designs rather than hollow points. I’ve found them to be very effective and accurate.


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They're not "bonded" in the usual sense of the term. Rather, they're plated Speer bullets.
Speer Gold Dot, Deep Curl, etc...


Data - Speer, Alliant, Hodgdon.
 
Just looking at my speer manual, they have a listing for a 140 gr Trophy bonded bear claw? Would that be about the same as the fusion?
 
NHSHOOTER said:
Just looking at my speer manual, they have a listing for a 140 gr Trophy bonded bear claw? Would that be about the same as the fusion?
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Nope, but you can probably use it. The Fusion is a good bullet, but you have to be careful with it. If you are pushing it too fast, you are actually fouling your bore at an astronomical rate and can cause pressure issues. If its grouping fine, its OK. It has to be grouping or you have to slow it down. (Or so I have been told)
 
I want to thank you all for the feedback, I think I will hold off on these "special" bullets..I have many other bullets I can load that kill deer just fine...
 
buck460XVR said:
Well, Chuck Hawks claims they're bonded, as does Speer......Technically, the copper plating is electro and/or electro chemical bonded to the lead core.

Coupla good articles about bonded bullets.....

https://www.chuckhawks.com/federal_fusion_ammo.htm

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=86
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There is no traditional CU jacket, just deposition. It does not have a jacket bonded to a core because it technically does not have a jacket, it has a coating. If you rely on everything Chuck Hawks says......well.. you will be stuck in the remedial world of shooting sports. (Imho)
 
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reynolds357 said:
There is no traditional CU jacket, just deposition. It does not have a jacket bonded to a core because it technically does not have a jacket, it has a coating. If you rely on everything Chuck Hawks says......well.. you will be stuck in the remedial world of shooting sports.
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Well, both Federal and Speer claim those bullets have "jackets bonded to the core at a molecular level". Chuck was just repeating what Federal told him. If I relied on everything random posters said on internet gun forums, I'd most certainly would be stuck in the remedial world of shooting sports......but I'm not. I'm going by what the manufacturer of the product says.
 
buck460XVR said:
Well, both Federal and Speer claim those bullets have "jackets bonded to the core at a molecular level". Chuck was just repeating what Federal told him. If I relied on everything random posters said on internet gun forums, I'd most certainly would be stuck in the remedial world of shooting sports......but I'm not. I'm going by what the manufacturer of the product says.
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Manufacturers hype their products. There is a lot of leeway in what is legally accurate. Cut one in half top to bottom and what is there will be obvious to you. Compare it to a disected Accubond (true bonded bullet by the common definition) and the difference will become glaringly obvious to you.
 
They are actually plated bullets. The Fusion used to be the Speer Deep Curl until they started having problems with them. Their plan was to do away with the Hot Cor and force everyone to use the Deep Curl, like they were the best in class. I raised hell with them about it, but I am sure that Speer did not change their mind because of my input.
 
Dufus said:
They are actually plated bullets. The Fusion used to be the Speer Deep Curl until they started having problems with them. Their plan was to do away with the Hot Cor and force everyone to use the Deep Curl, like they were the best in class. I raised hell with them about it, but I am sure that Speer did not change their mind because of my input.
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Yep, and the new Grand Slam is a piece of trash compared to the old ones. Speer used to be my exclusive bullet. Now, I completely avoid them.
 
Dufus said:
They are actually plated bullets.
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Of course they are. No body here is disputing that. What is being disputed is whether or not Fusions are by definition....bonded.

Here is a definition by a reputable source....
Bonded ammunition is essentially jacketed ammo (or any ammo with a metal jacket and soft lead core) that has gone through a process that bonds the two elements together. ... During this technique, the jacket is essentially applied to the outer surface of the already-formed core as exterior plating.
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Still, I know the internet has made experts out of many folks and many of those know more about products than the manufacturers that produce them.:rolleyes:

Jackets do not need to be a cup as used by standard cup and core type bullets. Not all plated bullets are created equally. Speer's process produces a bullet jacket that many cannot tell the difference between it and a standard cup and core. One problem with any jacketed bullet is the separation of the jacket from the core. Regardless of the process used, or the manufacturer/brand, the problem has never been eliminated. Speer's idea is one of the better ones, but like any bullet, in certain scenarios and to certain folks, they fail.
 
buck460XVR said:
Of course they are. No body here is disputing that. What is being disputed is whether or not Fusions are by definition....bonded.

Here is a definition by a reputable source....

Still, I know the internet has made experts out of many folks and many of those know more about products than the manufacturers that produce them.:rolleyes:

Jackets do not need to be a cup as used by standard cup and core type bullets. Not all plated bullets are created equally. Speer's process produces a bullet jacket that many cannot tell the difference between it and a standard cup and core. One problem with any jacketed bullet is the separation of the jacket from the core. Regardless of the process used, or the manufacturer/brand, the problem has never been eliminated. Speer's idea is one of the better ones, but like any bullet, in certain scenarios and to certain folks, they fail.
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Shoot a Fusion at 3400 FPS and get back to me.
 
Shoot a Fusion at 3400 FPS and get back to me.
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Better yet: shoot 5 to 10 in a row at those velocities and see what happens. You might wanna tie a string around the trigger and stand behind something solid.

They are certainly NOT made for velocities more than approximately 2900 fps. That was Speer's original dilemma with the Deep Curl. They would foul the barrel so bad that it was just about equal to having a barrel obstruction. The result was that Speer had to discontinue for liability reasons.

Just like Savage did with the 300 RUM. Too many blowups.
 
Dufus said:
Better yet: shoot 5 to 10 in a row at those velocities and see what happens. You might wanna tie a string around the trigger and stand behind something solid.

They are certainly NOT made for velocities more than approximately 2900 fps. That was Speer's original dilemma with the Deep Curl. They would foul the barrel so bad that it was just about equal to having a barrel obstruction. The result was that Speer had to discontinue for liability reasons.

Just like Savage did with the 300 RUM. Too many blowups.
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Agree on Speer/Federal.
Do tell the Savage story, I missed that one.
 
I've been using Speer GD's in 115gr .277 caliber out of a 6.8mm SPC at about 2,700 fps for a while now. I've shot several deer & hogs over the past few years. I've only recovered 2 bullets but they performed great. Pass through performance seems similar to other premium bullets. The recovered bullets retained pretty much 100% of their original weight & mushroomed nicely. The core must be very soft lead & I believe they would expand at lower velocities if you believe Speer. My understanding is that they use a special coating that lowers pressure & increases velocity(?) They are inexpensive which is not a big deal for a game bullet but a nice plus if you like practicing with your hunting rig. My only "con" is the poor BC but Speer is releasing a polymer tipped GD for the long range hunter. For now it is only in .308 diameter.
 
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