FBI Targets TFL Members as Potential Terrorist Threat?

The FBI is missing the point entirely.

The REAL domestic terrorists are those people who refuse to accept personal responsibility.

Some examples:

Our current leadership...

The lady who sued McDonalds because the coffee she bought there spilled in her lap...

The mayors and others who are suing the gun industry...

The guy who "had one too many Twinkies" and then went on a shooting rampage at McDonalds...

Anyone who pleads temporary insanity after murdering another...

Janet Reno...

Madaline Albright...

All those who are responsible for perpetuating the "drug war"...

Anyone who chooses to remain stupid about the psycological control that inanimate object exert upon us...

The FBI...

The ATF...

The IRS...

The NSA...

PAX...

HCI...

VCP...

Sarah Brady...

Ad nausium...

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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited December 10, 1999).]
 
Why do we never hear about the militant left? If I recall correctly, the Animal Liberation Front has been branded a domestic terrorist organization by the FBI. PETA president Ingrid Newkirk told her followers at 1997 conference "You can't legally deface someone's property, but if you're somewhere and no one's looking, go ahead." Does anyone ever mention the fact that Ted Kaczinsky (sp) aka "The Unabomber" was a left wing radical possibly influnced by the environmentalist rhetoric of Al Gore? Why is the FBI so worried about the "militia threat" if they have plants in just about evry single one? It's a sad day indeed when the word "Patriot" is synonymous with "fearmonger" and "terrorist" in the eyes of the government. But hey, if the FedGov fears us this much, we must be doing something right ;o)
 
The following is a transcript of the interview we had with the Assistant Special Agent in Charge of the Denver "Domestic Terrorism Unit" Greg Rampton....although Mr.Rampton was the only spokesman two other Agents and Sheriff of Jefferson County were there.....they had concern that some "nuts" may show up at the studio.....Johnstown is a small town in the middle of cow fields.....needless to say...no "nuts" showed up....had American Freedom Network been a left-wing station the fears of "nuts" showing up would of been justified.......


11/23/99: (Tue.)

Don Wiedeman host of FREEDOM FORUM, and co-host David Bresnahan (**SPELLING??**) of WorldNetDaily.com on KHNC 1360 AM Radio, Mon.-Fri., with guest Greg Rampton, who is the Assistant Special Agent in Charge of the Denver (FBI) Field Office regarding Project Megiddo.
 
DW:  And welcome to our show.  It's FREEDOM FORUM, and I'm your host, Don Wiedeman.  We're up on the AMERICAN FREEDOM NETWORK.  So glad you could join us tonight.  We have a special show for you tonight.  And we have some of the FBI people coming aboard here on our show tonight, and we have mainly Greg Rampton, who is the Assistant Special Agent in Charge of the Denver Field Office.  He's on board with us here tonight.  And we're going to be talking about Project Megiddo.  We've had a lot of calls, and there has been a lot of talk on the show about the whole thing, and a lot of Christians are concerned that they are being possibly swept all together with a broad beam with the Christian Identity and the Aryan Nation and the Klu Klux Klan and like that.

 So we've asked the FBI if they would have somebody come on the air with us and talk about these things, and see, you know, what the Denver office, how they look at these things.

 And so I wanted to welcome Greg Rampton with us here.  Greg, welcome to the AMERICAN FREEDOM NETWORK.

GR:  Thank you very much, and happy to be here.
http://www.americanewsnet.com/front/front05.htm
 
I found the Anthony Lewis report above particularly interesting.

Let me note this impression. Many times gunowners are admonished that 'they' have effectively banned firearms (to one degree or another) in places like Britain and Australia, with no negative consequences. Well, many of us have noted that crime has actually gone up in these situations.

But, I'll note another expectation, which I know has been voiced previously by others. I agree that it is entirely plausible that, given time, any government that has disarmed its population will trend towards despotism. Now, that sounds quite radical in today's world, to some. But, the anti's have such a short / small time and geographical frame of reference. Other countries, such as Cambodia, Liberia, the former Yugoslavia, Rwanda, etc. have had terrible consequences when their populations have been disarmed. And, even western Europe obviously was subject to terrible depradations from the Nazi's only 60 years ago.

We must win the fight for the RKBA, and we must indeed do it for the children.


ps - Rich / DC - please keep an eye on Paul Revere - I think he is treading dangerously close to violating our rules against disgusting behavior ... ;)

[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited December 12, 1999).]
 
I dont think many LEO's will want to go door to door as they will they be breaking the very law they have sworn to uphold. Many of them will jump the fence to the just side.

And for those who go door to door who's to say anyone will be home? Maybe well all be out trick or treating ourselves.Tread lightly lest ye reap the whirlwind you have caused.

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The beauty of the second Amendment is that it is not needed until they try to take it. T JEFFERSON

Do you really think that we want those laws to be observed? We want them broken. We're after power and we mean it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breakings laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted-and you create a nation of law breakers--and then you cash in on guilt.

A RAND
 
It is a very good topic. It again awaken my rebellious mind and feelings against the oppressor particularly those people in authority or people in the government who wants to make the civilian armless.

It reminds me also, our Phil history that the Spaniards when they colonized us, asked the civilians to surrender their firearms and give rewards also to those who can pinpoint somebody who has firearms. In this way the authority will give them a free hand to imposed anything they want to the population. We had experienced with Former President Ferdinand Marcos that when he declared martial law, he has a good Psychological threat on the populace to surrender their firearms or else...., then it was a success. But at this time I think even they declared multiple martial law, the population will not heed to them anymore. The past events and times had educated the people of not so much believe in a government pronouncement.

Yes, I believed that everything we talk and written hereon are monitored as I said one time in my post re: number of guns you owned. I was advised by one of the poster to delete a paragraph of my writing as it may use against me in my country, and I did that.

I am just thankful there are many people like you hereon having a real principle in the protection of Civil Rights of an individual to bear firearms.

Like my Gov't if they are true and sincere in the fight of true criminals, they should go after the Drug Lords, the Politicians who are corrupt. But to my observation, mostly small fish are being indicted. No big politician yet and a drug lord that was sent in the death chamber (lethal Injection). But there were lowly kind of people like a water vendor and ordinary laborer.

Thanks.
 
Stdalire, we're glad you're here too. Thanks for bringing the perspective of one who knows where disarmament leads from experience. I think we can all agree that you are best qualified here to tell Americans what it's REALLY like when the police and military are the only ones who go armed . . . .

------------------
Don

"Its not criminals that go into schools and shoot children"
--Ann Pearston, British Gun Control apologist and moron
 
Yes, I believed that everything we talk and written hereon are monitored.............

My personal experiance living under a "police state" (South Africa)....in the 70's they introduced the "terrorism act"....what this did was kill whatever free speech we had because the people wanted "government protection" from the likes of Nelson Mandela....and IMHO was the root cause for us giving SA over to the commies.... what this act did was... not knowing who was watching or listening caused the people to not discuss religion or politics with anyone who was not a family member or someone you had known all your life....just in case it was some government agent....who had the power if they "thought" you were anti-government could lock you up for 90 days .....and no one would know

I have said many times Americas future can be seen by looking at SA today.....the recent push for "hate crimes" legislation and I have no doubt if we see any "acts of terrorism" real or created ....Americans will forsake the 1st Amendment for "government protection" and that my friends will end this grand 223 year experiment in Freedom
 
Gwinnydapooh, thanks for the "good words".

 I can just say that I am a farm boy to a City Man and see the kind of life of people from mouth to mouth, middle and upper class level, I intermingle with some of those Communist/MNLF Secessionist returnees of the north and in the south up to the most corrupt officials, and it happens also that one of the Sgt. involve Rogelio Dela Cruz “Murder suspect (now in Prison) of the then Ninoy Aquino slay” is my good friend and neighbor before, but we did not talk even once about this subject. I feel very sorry that up to now I haven’t visited the poor Sergeant in his prison cell as I am coming in Saudi Arabia to work every year. I hope I can visit him soon.

 I can compare the disparity of life, the logic, the sentiment of all sector. One thing I hate only is, when a man is powerless, he cannot get a true justice and they are the prey of rouge persons in authority.

 When a person in authority is in hot water, he uses the layman to uplift him again in his pedestal. I see this scenario. During the time of President Corazon “Cory” Aquino, many mayors up to senators were replaced by OIC’s “Officers in Charge” appointed by that government. Those displaced Gov’t officials uses the masses to go on rally to air their grievances. One mayor now a president (Joseph Estrada) I rallied with him among other groups on the street during those time. The masses or we may say the poor people support him. One senator (Juan Ponce Enrile – now still a senator among others) when he is not about to past through his confirmation as winner during Aquino time, he go back to the Street (EDSA) to join the masses to rally against the Aquino Gov’t and Mr. Enrile is signing the T-shirts of the rallyist. My point here is, some people who are in high position today and try not to support the masses in their advocate, when they are in hot water also, they use the same people to help them. During those Street Parliamentarian demonstration, I have seen how cruel the police to baton or kick the demonstrator even old woman they don’t spare. I was one of those demonstrator also (observer). One time I’ve heard a couple of police saying, look at these damn loyalist, they cannot fight us, they are also coward. Oh! Boy the two policeman with their club’s (stick) and .38 look themselves warriors in that scenario against the barehand civilians. Now, I realize – Joseph Estrada when he is rallying that time is an enemy of the incumbent and fighting for the basic rights of the people but now that he is president of the Philippines it seems that the basic dream of the masses seems neglected, the two policeman for sure are still working under him, and the president seems forget what the layman are fighting for. In here too, I cannot find a difference about the actions of LE’s in several governments they worked for, they act the same thing under a past an incumbent president or leader.

 Also, I thought before that only in the Phils the LE’s will baton/club’s the peaceful demonstrators but even in the US they do the same like had happened in Seattle. Is that how US claims to be the champion of Human Rights advocates, a model etc, questioning 3rd world countries how the gov’t is so cruel to their population. Just my own analysis.

 My point here also is, when a man is fully armed against an unarmed person, he has all the courage to beat the unarmed person. I believe in a “Détente” principle. If a person is armed, he is not just being hit or push back by another armed man. Like what had happened now in Russia. They were castigated by US or told to do something with that separatist province problem, what did they answer, “we have still enough nuclear warheads and we should not be dictated nor lectured to do this and that”. So, there is a stand off. It will avert confrontation as both sides think the effect of their dangerous games if they will strike one another. The same thing when a legal law abiding citizen are armed, the evil perpetrator who ever he is, will think twice if he do his evil purpose or not.

 Opps, I even more active commenting Pro-gun in this forum rather in my own country. I cannot foretell nor foresee a promising pro-gun in my country now with the current Phil National Police set up as they seems to very strict in issuing licenses and permit to carry now. I may learned more about it when I go back to Shooting Practice with my Police and Military brod in the gun club and wish that I can still get a permit to carry for my two pistols throughout the yr 2000.
 Thanks for your patience in reading my contributions to this forum.
 
A terrorist??? Moi? Pretentious, maybe ... a terrorist, never!

Why am I a terrorist? because I like shooting? Big deal -- people like golf, and motorbikes, and bocce, and building houses out of matchsticks, and archery, and discus, and mountain bike riding, and fishing, and ... you name it. Why does shooting make me a terrorist?

In 1969, I got a ticket for a parking offence. Nothing before, nothing since. I don't cheat on my wife or my taxes, I pay off my (big) mortgage regularly, I don't drink and drive, I obey the law even when I don't personally agree with it. Why am I a terrorist??

I have a wife and two girls whom I love to death. I get stressed over work. I hate the morning rush hour traffic on the freeway. I enjoy a beer and a good red wine. Occasionally, my wife and I treat ourselves to a night out at a restaurant; otherwise I do all the cooking for the family (we "job share"). I worry about being able to pay the rates and taxes and insurance and superannuation and my younger daughter's school fees. I just had an interview for a new job, but I'm concerned my age is against me getting the position, even though I know I can do it standing on my head. I'm concerned about the rising crime rate, particularly, as I get older myself, against the elderly. I see my own mortality and impending frailty. I'm pretty big and muscular now -- but at 49, for how much longer will I feel able to look after my family? My own father can barely walk and couldn't fight off a kid.

What of the above makes me different from anyone else?

Oh, I own a gun so that makes me a terrorist, right?

Bull****!!!!

If anyone in the government (yours or mine) is monitoring this, we are just ordinary people who have done nothing wrong other than be concerned about the status quo.

I would never lift a firearm against a fellow human being except to defend myself or, more likely, my wife and children.

How do I pose a threat????

B
 
Notice the quantity of applications for Tact-type teams & the alphabet agencies. 10 at least for every person accepted. Not enough slots to go around for all the gung-hos.

It was mentioned in an above post that the ones giving the orders are safe & sound in their ivory towers. Too true, while there's more than enough troopers to go around for quite a while. :-(



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we gladly feast on those who would subdue us
 
Y2K, FEMA and
'domestic terror'

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_btl/19991213_xcbtl_y2k_fema_a.shtml
The FBI and other U.S. government police agencies are
stepping up the warnings against "domestic terrorism"
surrounding Y2K -- now just a little more than two weeks
away.

I have a feeling that if anything goes wrong on Jan. 1, the
government has a ready-made scapegoat in these "domestic
terrorists" -- militias, religious groups, preparedness activists
and just about anyone else who doesn't put their faith in
Washington.

The government-media propaganda machine is laying it on
pretty thick, with Saturday's front-page Los Angeles Times
screamer just the latest example.

But today I want to bring your attention to a little-noticed
development over at the Federal Emergency Management
Agency. Oh, I know, only Fox Mulder and paranoid
anti-government conspiracy theorists ever give FEMA a
second notice. Nevertheless, I do not let the New York Times
and the Washington Post set my editorial agenda or do my
thinking for me. In fact, when the government-media complex
discourages you from looking at a particular agency, there's
probably a pretty good reason for it.

Anyway, last week FEMA announced that John W. Magaw
would be joining the agency management team. That name
may not ring a bell for most people, but his appointment is a
bit of a surprise, given the job he is leaving.

Magaw currently serves as director of the Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco and Firearms. That's a pretty big job he's leaving. And
guess what he's going to do at FEMA? You got it. He will plan
and coordinate FEMA's domestic terrorism efforts.

Magaw, by the way, is an anti-Second Amendment zealot.
Readers of this column may recall his name from his most
famous and liberal interpretation of the "Gun Free Zones Act."
Back in October of 1997, I wrote about how Magaw found the
new law banning guns from within 1,000 feet of a school,
whether in a home or in a car, to include home schools. Thus,
home-schooling parents would be deprived of their
constitutional rights as would all other gun owners who would
have no way of knowing which homes are used for
home-schooling.

Do you get it? Due to the complete failure of government
schools in this country, more and more parents are choosing to
home-school their kids. States have discouraged it. Washington
certainly has. But here's an innovative new twist dreamed up
by the idiots in Congress and a visionary madman in the
Clinton administration.

It's difficult today -- if not impossible -- to find a neighborhood
anywhere in America where someone is not home-schooling.
Do you see the sheer genius of Magaw's idea from the point of
view of a government gun-grabber? It's difficult enough
knowing when you are traveling within 1,000 feet of a
traditional school -- government or private. But how on earth
is one supposed to know if and when you are driving past a
home school? There are no flagpoles, no crossing guards and
no playgrounds. Home schools look just like any other home.

And who came up with this ingenious interpretation of a bad
law? John Magaw. Isn't this the guy you want in charge of
domestic terrorism? He obviously believes that all law-abiding
gun owners are really potential domestic terrorists who need
to be disarmed for the safety of our communities.

Magaw is a Clinton favorite all the way. Before taking over
leadership of BATF, he served as director of Clinton's Secret
Service. Imagine the secrets the head of the Secret Service
under Clinton must learn. It boggles the mind. When you see a
guy like that get promoted, you know it's a payoff for loyalty
-- for keeping his mouth shut.

FEMA is a virtual dumping grounds for Clinton's trusted inner
circle of federal cops. And that's what makes it a genuinely
scary agency -- not the "X-Files" warnings of Fox Mulder.

If I didn't know better, I'd say that Washington -- and
particularly the Clinton administration -- is doing everything in
its power to ensure that those of us already cynical about the
intentions of government get a message. And the message I
hear is: We're coming after you, and we are using any means
necessary to subdue you and suppress your radical ideas about
freedom.
 
Let it be known lest members here become supsicious:

I AM NOT TONY BLAIR'S HOME SECRETARY!!!!!!!

A)"Jack Straw" comes from one of my favorite cowboy songs.

B)I couldn't possibly be British and I have the dentist to prove it.


Jack
 
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