FBI: "Oops! Guess we did use incendiaries at Waco"

Let's not forget the media's responsibility. Part of the reason that most people don't care is because the press painted up the BD to be a group of cultic psychos. The press made it appears as if they got what they deserved. I think that's just as disgusting as what the feds had done.
 
http://www.dallasmorningnews.com/texas_southwest/0827tsw1delta.htm

Delta Force had active role in raid, ex-CIA officer told

Pentagon won't discuss Army commando unit
08/27/99
By Lee Hancock / The Dallas Morning News
© 1999, The Dallas Morning News

A former CIA officer said Thursday that he learned from Delta Force commandos that
members of the secret Army unit were "present, up front and close" in helping the FBI in the
final tear-gas assault on the Branch Davidian compound.

The former officer, Gene Cullen, told The Dallas Morning News that he heard the detailed
accounts of the military's active involvement from "three or four" anti-terrorist Delta
commandos as he worked with them on an overseas assignment in 1993.

"Whether it's the macho-bravo-type talk of guys in the field, I don't know," he said, declining to
identify the individuals involved. "I have no reason to suspect that they lied. And it didn't just
come from one of them. There were three or four guys that confirmed that, who were from
Delta."
 
The FBI could have just erected a 20 foot fence and left a guard force till Koresh complied

Oh thats right, David Koresh would have immediately started killing his own children.

eating them too...

dZ
 
The things governments do best is lie and grow. Why are we all surprised at this?
The government that governs best is NOT the one that governs least, but the one that CAN govern least.
Good for the Texas Rangers! Even if the "Dept. of Public Safety" for the state cop shop puts my teeth on edge!



------------------
The Bill of Rights, and the Golden Rule are enough for civilized behavior. The rest is window dressing. Shoot carefully, swifter...
 
Rich makes an important point. At least at this stage, I personally still respect our military. I grew up respecting the FBI, but got over that naivete in the last decade. ATF we won't discuss. I've met good and decent FBI and ATF agents - I know they're out there. But, as federal agencies? No thanks.

The Texas Rangers seem to be honorable, thank God. I hope our military stays professional as well. Congressional hearings, if any, should be a bit more interesting this time, I hope. And, those hearings should include review of what happened to the surviving Davidians.
 
Reno resign in disgrace? I believe she needs to be charged with conspiracy to commit mass murder and as an accessory before and after the fact. And executed along with everyone in the entire chain of command who committed this atrocity. If found guilty. Yeah, right. Welcome to the police state. Get your biometric internal passport...oops...driver's license here. But of course, all her henchmen were only following orders just as Agent Horiuchi did so well. And Himmler, Eichmann, et al.


So there are good, decent FBI and ATF agents?
A good and decent person would have no recourse but to resign from these agencies after their recent history. If you lie down with dogs you will get up with fleas.
 
DZ I am so glad you brought up the fact that Delta Force(ak nightstalkers) was at Waco. I hope Rich reads it. I have been saying all along that there are elements in our military that are part of this unconstitutional Regime now in power in Amerika. Dont fool yourselves people. The military can just as easily be corrupted as the FBI ATF and other government agencies already are corrupted. But i am afraid that even with all this evidence of military involvement in Waco, the masses will still believe in Uncle Scam and apple pie. Only when the herd is being lead away will they finally understand what is really happening. I have been bitching about the Waco coverup for years and alrady knew from shortwave reports that the military was at Waco IN A ACTIVE ROLE. None of this coming out now surprises me. What surprises me is the naive reaction of the sheeple. T His is what really makes me made. I can understand the corrupt Federal (feral)_ police and the uncaring Texas Rangers who at the time knew it was wrong but had pensions to protect, but it is the drunken masses who from day one of Waco,just dont give a damn. When the NWO officially hits town, i will love to see the faces of the dumbed down American masses. a rancher friend of mine in Oklahoma once said that the american people will wake up when they run out of beer(0r sports) I think of those butchered people often and the reaction of the sheeple is what really pisses me off.
 
Ivan-
I did read the info on Delta. The difference between you and I is that it saddens me, if true; for you, it is affirmation that every conspiracy you've learned about thru "short wave" must be true.

I'm still waiting for your confirmation that Dianne Feinstein holds an Israeli passport as reported at http://www.thefiringline.com:8080/forums/showthread.php?threadid=23799 . I don't doubt your zeal and good intent, but these are the types of attacks that we've all come to despise in our enemies. Therefore, when I see them from my friends, I ask for a reality check. This, to me, is only natural.

Spart-
Don't know any ATF agents. But the FBI guys that I *do* know are above reproach. They should not resign from the agency any more than you and I should renounce citizenship, for the actions of our government. When we broadbrush them in this manner, we grant them every right to broadbrush us as slothful, ignorant, sheeple or, better yet, criminals....after all, all they need to do is read the papers to see how many attrocities "we" commit.

You can call abuse of power for what it is (and you should). You can call murder for what it is (and you should). But when you call an entire class of citizens or LEO's the enemy, you've just pissed on a whole bunch of friends...and engaged in the same demonizing that we decry in the antis. Think about it.
Rich

[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited August 27, 1999).]
 
I see your point, Rich. But consider this, as I mentioned in another post- a couple of hundred thousand Germans (non Jews-Aryan types) died in Nazi Germany for refusing to be a party to atrocities. Not necessarily for refusing to commit them- just resigning from the Gestapo or SS in protest of atrocities. At what point does association turn into becoming an accessory? I believe that point has been reached. You do not. By my understanding of honor, I could not be a member of either agency in honor. Perhaps other folks have a different understanding of the meaning of honor. The assistant deputy director of the FBI knew that the FBI was lying to Congress under oath. Am I supposed to believe that the director did not know? If the director did know, as I believe to be the case, and is not terminated for that knowledge-where does that leave the rank and file agent who continues to follow his direction? With his honor intact? Mine, in such a situation, would not be. I would have no honorable alternative but to, with great sadness, resign.
 
Rich, I must also state that I have been an onlooker in two FBI investigations. In one, my female cousin was intimidated by the threat of unwarranted indictment and prosecution (the agent admitted that they would not win the prosecution but emphasized that it would cost her $50,000 to sucessfully defend) to testify against a drug ring with a known history of torture of witnesses. She and three children were then left with no protection of any nature. Very ethical don't you think?

In the other, a local drug dealer was raided and was not home and never came home. Well, the intrepid FBI charged his wife and son with sale of drugs and convicted them. I live in a small community. Everyone knows everyone else and their business. Everyone knew the guy sold drugs. You will not find anyone who believes the wife sold drugs at any time. The son? He hated what his father did and as adolescents often will, rebelled by being the exact opposite of his parent, i.e, a straight arrow in this case. But the FBI charged him and his mother and convicted them. You can canvass every drug addict in this county and not find a single one who will say that the mother and son sold drugs. They will all admit that the father did. No one says the mother and son sold drugs but the FBI. Two more sterling examples of Fidelity, Bravery, and Integrity.
 
Spartacus, I have to agree with Rich on the FBI agents with integrity. Its an organization with something like 10,000 people, sure some are scumbags, and some have honor. If the people with honor did all quit the FBI in disgust, then the whole agency would go straight to hell, and we would all pay for it. I think that the more good people who get into positions of authority in the government the better off we will all be.
 
Spart-
We can agree to disagree on this one. You make valid points.

I just find it difficult to equate a man (or woman) with his/her job. I don't think all chemical workers, IRS agents, politicians or even outlaws can be dropped into a category.

Rich
 
I think you need to take a close look at just who is in the positions of authority you mention. Louis Freeh, director, who promoted Larry Potts of Ruby Ridge infamy and later caught to a degree on the coverup. Janet "I take full responsibility" Reno- boss of the Justice Department and Freeh's boss as a result. The assistant deputy director (retired) who blew the whistle after waiting six years while keeping the cover on. Guess he needed to get his years in for retirement before he could get "honest." How deep does the rot have to go before the agents who are
"above reproach" can no longer hold their noses at the stink? What has to occur before the agents good and true gag at the association of their good name with people willing to orchestrate a Ruby Ridge and a Waco and then lie under oath to Congress and to the American people? Look at the table of organization from the director to the agents who fired the much denied pyrotechnic canisters. Then consider the number of associates present but not in that chain of command who undoubtedly knew what happened.
Then consider the nature of scuttlebutt within an organization over a period of six years. A hell of a large percentage of those 10,000 at least knew that the gossip within the FBI was that the official line was perjury. Not one blew the whistle. Not one who knew either for certain or on the basis of agency scuttlebutt is "above reproach."


"Why does treason never prosper? If it prospers, none dare call it treason."
 
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