FBI Agent Loses Gun During Back Flip...

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Worked for a PMC for a while. We had a number of incidents when a gun went off when it wasn't supposed to. In EVERY case, we terminated the guy. Negligent discharge, not accidental.

Sharkbite - what ... were you doing loading a gun in quarters like that? We provided base security on US outposts. NO ONE chambered a round without a supervisor's permission. Immediate termination.
 
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I once was involved with a case as an expert witness, when I first moved to Florida, all via emails, phone conversations, from my old City of residence, Toronto.

I could not return in person, the application for a Green Card would have ended, as soon as I crossed the border. Not happening.

Not a problem anyway, worked out fine. My local knowledge of Police firearm rules and Regs. Came in real handy.

How it is similar to the Jumping JackFBI agents NG, is thus.

The Plain Clothes Constables Glock G27, fell to the floor in an arrest, one against 3. After the hard to believe stories from the three Constables, I saw on paper?

Exactly the same stories, including the one spelling mistake, exact.

I deducted the Pistol fell from the cheap in the pants nylon holster, there was enough cotton on the velcro retention strap, to have manufactured a tee shirt!

It was not retaining squat.

And a hasty grab to the trigger caused a .40 Cal S&W round to exactly parallel the tiled floor. And punch a hole through one Officers heel of his new sneaker, and not touch skin! But he said it felt like a baseball bat hit! The round was found buried in the wall, 1/4" up from the said tiled floor.

The story (3 of them) said this skinny 40-year-old Jamaican (Who had never had even a traffic ticket, in his 30 years in Canada) had lifted up from the deck, with three burly Officers on his back, drew the pistol, and tried to shoot one of these burly Constables, sure he did.

Exhibit # 1, the holster, was shown to the Court, The Judge liked my version of this struggle. And the 15 years in jail, went away, charges were dismissed.

I used to live near 41 Division, close to where this action took place. Close to this, as we would describe Section 8 housing here in the US of A, Ontario Housing development in Ontario. No, I have not been back!
 
he will be fired, not because of failure to secure his gun, not even for the negligent discharge that resulted in an innocent party's injury... but rather for making the department look bad.

I'm sorry to disagree with you but I rather doubt it. Of course if you or I had done it we would be looking at 5 years in the slammer. :rolleyes:
 
They DON"T is what I meant to say. they aren't beat cops, they are more informational, but that doesn't mean that there are no agents in the field who are involved with actual danger.

No problem.
 
Nope, Misdemeanor is up to one year.

If they can prove he was drunk they could tack another misdemeanor charge on him for carrying while intoxicated. I think it is three months.

So um, how many first time offenders go to actual jail and do time for misdemeanor charges in Colorado? Around here it somewhere around 1% unless they don't pay their fines in which case it is 100%.
 
If you are not a legal expert, can we stop the opinions of who would go to the slammer. If you are not a FBI agent or someone knowledgeable about law enforcement, can we stop the blather about their job roles.

Let us talk about what actually happened and what is actually known. Charges and analyses will be forthcoming. Until then, some of this thread is embarrassing.
 
Sharkbite - what ... were you doing loading a gun in quarters like that? We provided base security on US outposts. NO ONE chambered a round without a supervisor's permission. Immediate termination.

Not every contractor works in such controlled environments. Our villa (teamhouse) was our home, training area (gym), briefing/planning area, motor pool...everything.

We would do our mission brief, get jocked up, and roll out. Lots of weapons handeling in and around the house. Dont assume that because you had to load under the supervision of someone that all contractors had to operate under such regulations.

During my time in Afghanistan, we would regulary go in and out of the Embassy in Kabul. I had the opportunity to chat with some of the guys on the guardforce there. Some were great guys, some were just warm bodies filling a slot. If i remember correctly, they had the same kind of regs you mention.

Sorry Brother, i dont mean to come off like an A**. But, not all contractors (or contracts) are on the same level
 
So, there are ACCIDENTAL discharges

Of course there are. The FBI agent wasn't slamming a mag into the gun and he wasn't charging the gun or anything like that. It would seem extremely unlikely that his drop gun became motion sensitive and fired simply because he touched it in a manner of safe and normal gun handling.

Running the video in slow motion...looks like the gun fired when he closed his hand around the grip and tightened while in the process of picking it up. It happens in a fairly smooth motion. It is unclear where his finger is at the time, but since the gun fired while his hand was tightening around the grip, it is more likely that his finger is inside the trigger guard at the time. Simply squeezing the grip should not cause the gun to discharge.
 
simple case of stupidity and

clumsiness making a grab for the sidearm on the ground,

I thought any duty holster had to use a thumb break.

Just poor decisions involved.
 
I thought any duty holster had to use a thumb break.

First, he wasnt “on duty”, so he wouldnt be using a “duty holster”.

Next, thumb breaks are not the standard for retention holsters anymore.

Rotating hoods, ejection port locks and devices that grab the front of trigger guard are the norm in “duty holsters”

OFF duty holsters are of the same type used by the avg Joe in a CCW context. Some Agencies will have a list of approved holsters (and guns), others just make you qualify with your off duty set up
 
I got a totally different impression--the best part was when he did his "I know nothing" sargeant Shultz impression and walked away. dollars to donuts his LE career ended right then and there. :(
 
He's a fed. Worst case scenario he gets transferred to Tweedle ____ Falls North Dakota, or Barrow Alaska, or maybe even a cushy job in Washington DC. Stuff like that is why I take very little notice of what guns and ammo the FBI has just selected, even if they did wind up stuck with a Glock. My CZ75 duty pistol rides in a $300 level III retention holster, and my shoulder holster is an old West German design solo for a Sig Sauer P226R or P228R, and all of these pistols are excellent IMHO. Glock is okay too. I carry a Glock 43 in a belly band, but I generally tuck my underwear up over the pistol, because it rides low and I have more ready access to the Sig or the CZ. I also do not hang out in bars, unless I am being paid, and that is for entertainment of the musical type, not prop comedy, with loaded firearms. Things like this are why I am NOT A GLOCK FAN. I doubt I could pull the DA trigger of any of my hammer fired DA/SA pistols, or DA/SA revolvers trying to catch one of them. Glocks, or any striker other fired guns are best left to hit the ground. This is a prime example of trying to handle a gun in ways that are beyond "almost" anyone's ability.
 
Sorry for the language. . .

Sounds like our setup in Afghanistan. We bought a lot of sketchy guns in both Iraq and Afghanistan (due to USG rules). Midnight transactions with some "Colonel." Most were junk. But we always ran them by an armorer first.
 
Let's have a proper investigation, then disciplinary and legal action. I am a firm believer in Due Process.
 
If you are not a legal expert, can we stop the opinions of who would go to the slammer. If you are not a FBI agent or someone knowledgeable about law enforcement, can we stop the blather about their job roles.

Let us talk about what actually happened and what is actually known. Charges and analyses will be forthcoming. Until then, some of this thread is embarrassing.

Glenn, I'm sorry about the "slammer" remark. It's just that there does seem to be a double standard for civilians vs LE when it comes to things of this nature. I have a lot of cop friends and they tell me stories that validate this, although I would never repeat them.

As for what happened in this case, all kidding aside, I believe that G-men should be able to have fun too. But I think he displayed a lack of judgement if he was drinking and dancing and turning back flips with a concealed weapon on his person. I personally do not think he should be fired, with just the information we presently have, however this isn't something that can JUST be chalked up to being an unfortunate accident. Why? A person was injured as a result of what happened. And he could have been killed.

I do take back my slammer remark. If I had done this they would probably put me in the funnyfarm. LOL! (kidddddinnngggg!!!)

What do you think about it? Do you think it should just be chalked up to the guy didn't do anything really wrong. Accidents just happen and this was one of them? Or do you think he showed a lack of judgement serious enough that maybe he shouldn't be a gun carrying FBI agent and maybe should be relegated to a desk job?

What's your thinking on this?
 
I think it will solely depend on his BAC.
Doing a backflip and losing your gun...disciplinary action.
Being intoxicated (while carrying) and doing a backflip...fired. Just a total lack of good judgement
 
Let's have a proper investigation, then disciplinary and legal action. I am a firm believer in Due Process.

I'm having a hard time believing that he will get off without serious repercussions. That was an incredibly public act of stupidity and that will never, ever go away. That guy was shot by an FBI agent who was being a complete idiot. If a bad arrest can get a guy a million dollar settlement, what sort of settlement will this guy get because Captain dork shot him in the ankle while playing an absolute fool? He's probably been solicited by top level lawyers a dozen times already, sharks who smell blood. Now, consider some of the most vicious anti law and order agitators, there are going to be reporters following this for years.

There are people who believe that this could be swept under a rug. Maybe when I was younger, it happened all of the time. When my hometown was still a rough semi frontier town, police reports included people who were backshot just because they ran, with no genuine probable cause. The frisco railway bottoms were as bad as any slum today, with armed crazies everywhere. Cops died there.
 
briandg:
I'm having a hard time believing that he will get off without serious repercussions. That was an incredibly public act of stupidity and that will never, ever go away. That guy was shot by an FBI agent who was being a complete idiot.

I strongly agree with you and I'm not a lawyer, a cop or a rocket scientist.

Just the visual of his silly little act will stay with me the rest of my life.

;)
 
* * * That was an incredibly public act of stupidity and that will never, ever go away. That guy was shot by an FBI agent who was being a complete idiot. If a bad arrest can get a guy a million dollar settlement, what sort of settlement will this guy get because Captain dork shot him in the ankle while playing an absolute fool? He's probably been solicited by top level lawyers a dozen times already, sharks who smell blood. Now, consider some of the most vicious anti law and order agitators, there are going to be reporters following this for years.

Well, if you recall, there's already ample precedent for "Stupid-Cop" stunts that stay in the news for years ...

Anybody remember that idjit DEA agent - the 'Glock Fortay' guy - about 10-years ago now? :rolleyes: What happened to him?

The video of him discharging his Agency-issued 'Glock Fortay' inside his pants in that classroom went viral and followed him for years ... it resulted in so much personal humiliation, harassment, and official harangues the guy ended getting a lawyer and suing the DEA and several supervisors for, among other claims, creating a 'hostile work environment' and the 'intentional infliction of emotional distress.' :eek:

Poor guy ... *sniff, sniff* :rolleyes:
 
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