Fast & Furious scandal coverup truth exposed by court order

"Was,in fact,a pilot program""

I do not think so.
Wide Receiver was done with the knowledge and consent of Mexico.Not so with F+F.
My understanding,(no,I cannot source it.)the Wide Receiver guns had tracking devices installed.The point was to follow the guns to the cartels.
Unfortunately,information leaked,the gunrunners removed the tracking devices,the operation was a fail.
But apprehending cartel criminals was the motive.

F+F was done without the consent or knowledge of Mexico.No tracking devices were installed in the weapons.
The point of F+F ? Those guns needed to be traceable to a USA firearm dealer.
Those guns needed to slaughter people in Mexico(collateral damage)
Those guns needed to create an international incident."American gun dealers source of weapons slaughtering innocent Mexican people"
(Zoom in camera for tears and emotion)
The international outrage was to be the crisis to attack and destroy the 2nd Amendment.

It was an "Ends justify the means" maneuver that has killed hundreds of innocent Mexican people,along with Brian Terry.

F+F was a calculated waste of human life to further a political ambition.

All to shut down USA gun shops.

All of the players in that scheme need to be held accountable for every life lost.
and for betrayal of the oath to "Uphold ,defend,and protect the Constitution"

Wide Receiver and F+F are quite different.
The lame attempt to play moral equivalency and shift blame from current administration to previous administration is typical,predictable,and .....for the Mods,I'll stop there.
 
The lame attempt to play moral equivalency and shift blame from current administration to previous administration is typical,predictable,and .....for the Mods,I'll stop there.
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1. i'm not attempting to "play moral equivalency" or trying to "shift blame" from any administration. Facts are facts and you are ranting.

2. The same career bureaucrats who designed and ran Fast and Furious previously designed and ran Wide Receiver

3. Contrary to popular myth; few, if any, Wide Receiver guns were tracked. After Wide Receiver came to light Issa perpetuated this lame claim: He was proven wrong.

4. Contrary to popular myth started by Ed Morrissey there is no proof that the Mexican government was ever informed of Wide Receiver.

5. The US House "investigation" into Operation Fast and Furious was a political ploy in an election year. There never was any attempt to reform the BATFE.

6. In order to understand what really happened, especially in Wide Receiver, one needs to read the OIG report and the US House minority report.
 
Yes, you are coming back with the "everybody does it" just like Hillary has tried to do with her email scandal.

What facts we do know for certain are the untruthfulness of the AG in his first testimony, and that some of the untracked guns wound up being used to killed a number of Mexican nationals and one US government agent. Not to mention what the purpose was - to gin up antigun hysteria in the political arena.

And of course the republicans are going to make political hay about it.
 
The integrity of our elected and appointed officials is the major point of the dismay of the people. I fail to see how that lever of integrity can be dismissed.
 
Yes, you are coming back with the "everybody does it" just like Hillary has tried to do with her email scandal.
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We don't want to go off-track with the email thing, but you bring up a very good point. The first strategy in both cases was denial. When that fails, claim ignorance or lack of awareness. When that fails, claim "everybody does it." When that fails, hope the media finds something else to focus on until the political winds change and people forget.

Clinton is currently in Stage 4, as is Holder.

The most galling thing was watching him tell Congress that he wasn't even aware of F&F until "May or so" of 2011. That always struck me as odd, because the President was on Telemundo placating journalists about the issue the prior January. Are we to believe at no point that the President called the AG and said, "hey, figure out what's going on here?"
 
That always struck me as odd, because the President was on Telemundo placating journalists about the issue the prior January. Are we to believe at no point that the President called the AG and said, "hey, figure out what's going on here?"
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You know a policeman is set to do their job when they don a kevlar vest.

And you know a politician is set to theirs when they don kelvar underwear.

CYA at its finest.
 
Operation Fast and Furious was a very small part of a huge multi agency investigation into dope being transported into the US of A. We know nothing about the other aspects of the overall operation or of correspondence between agencies.

Yep, there is little doubt that Fast and Furious went deep into the Obama administration. There is no doubt that some political appointees lied.

Rather than conduct a bi-partisan investigation and letting chips fall where they may; Issa turned the investigation into an election year witch hunt.

William Newell was the BATFE SAC in Phoenix. Newell is your quintessential Mickey Mouse tyrant. He railroaded a long time BATFE agent, falsely accusing him of burning his own house down.

William Newell ran both Wide Receiver and Fast and Furious. Agent Newell admitted discussing Fast and Furious with his bud in white house national security; Director for North America, one Kevin O'Reilly. Issa asked the white house to make Kevin O'Reilly available for questioning. Obama refused and Issa dropped the matter.

Newell has been promoted into the bowels of BATFE headquarters.

The investigation into Fast and Furious was botched big time. There will never, ever be any justice.

Watch BATFE Agent William Newell waffle and squirm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WANSbwmYlYI
 
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The point of F+F ? Those guns needed to be traceable to a USA firearm dealer.
Those guns needed to slaughter people in Mexico(collateral damage)
Those guns needed to create an international incident."American gun dealers source of weapons slaughtering innocent Mexican people"
(Zoom in camera for tears and emotion)
The international outrage was to be the crisis to attack and destroy the 2nd Amendment.
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Starting with William Bennett in 1989, anti-Second Amendment activists have propagated the myth that curtailing U.S. gun rights would disarm Mexican criminals.
In fact, most of the drug cartels' weapons might have been made in the U.S., but they were originally provided to Latin American regimes by our government, and then smuggled NORTH into Mexico.

Courtesy of Wikileaks -

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1381630/WikiLeaks-Mexican-drug-gangs-armed-U-S-weapons.html
 
Many weapons were also provided directly TO the Mexican government, then purchased by the cartels directly from the soldiers they were issued to. Others simply happened to be AWOL the night the cartel emptied the local armory.
 
Tom Servo
If they truly wanted justice, Issa and Grassley should have squeezed the SAC's at the Phoenix field division. The agents who planned and executed the operation (and for which there was plenty of proof) should have been prosecuted. That didn't happen.
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Well, they tried that with the IRS a few years later and went equally nowhere. I'm not saying that it wouldn't have been a good idea (I would have preferred a different tack), but I don't think anything would have stuck on St. Obama's administration during the first couple years. I mean he was the flipping Nobel Peace Prize winner for gosh sake. "Move on! Nothing to see here!"
 
OCDETF ops are to law enforcement what Michael Bay $300 million summer blockbusters are to the movie studios. They are watched very closely, and it's inconceivable that Holder wasn't receiving weekly briefings on F&F.
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And since this directly involved the affairs of a foreign government (Mexico's, not the Cartels', though I repeat myself) it is unlikely other relevant departments (i.e. State) weren't consulted or interested. I only say this due to the circumstantial, but oddly long, history of alleged smuggling operations linked with Clinton administrations. My belief is F&F didn't point to "the president," but rather, "the next president."

If they truly wanted justice, Issa and Grassley should have squeezed the SAC's at the Phoenix field division.
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Seeing as Issa didn't even do a half decent job of making political hay out of the affair (the court-ordered document dump from Hillary's server has been far, far, far more destructive), I think the more likely truth of the matter is that he & congress were made acutely aware, early on, that no one would be prosecuted on these matters for the duration of this administration, nor would they be getting any cooperation with their inquiries. All they would be able to do is draft indictments based on rudimentary tidbits of evidence that stone-walling departments couldn't keep hidden (and keep hidden/destroy without repercussions), which would be ignored and decried as even more 'political hackery' than the inquisitions. The contempt charge of Holder was literally about the most they could do without relying upon cooperation from the Justice Department, which would obviously not be forthcoming. All congress itself can do, let alone a subcommittee, is subpoena people to appear, and hopefully embarrass their bosses enough with revelations that Justice is directed to prosecute & staunch the bleeding via cauterization.

Any claim Issa was throwing the match also ignores the very influential role Elijah Cummings, of various congressional scandals/corruption fame, played in disrupting & making a mockery of the whole process, cheer-leading the meme of it being 'nothing but a witch hunt' while sabotaging every attempt to gather evidence or testimony from the very beginning. Google the man's name and Fast & Furious and it's page after page of daily denouncements to news media. Yup, there was certainly not one single aspect of this affair worthy of investigation by Congress, alright; they should've just moved on after Terry was killed (or assassinated for trying to blow open this story in the first place, as evidence is increasingly suggesting)

Many weapons were also provided directly TO the Mexican government, then purchased by the cartels directly from the soldiers they were issued to. Others simply happened to be AWOL the night the cartel emptied the local armory.
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IIRC, that massacre of some forty student demonstrators by 'cartel members' at the direction of the local mayor, was supposedly committed with new HK G36 rifles (any student of the gun would know those deliveries came with very strict rules and book keeping of who ends up with the guns & how they are used, per German export regs). That, and other similar incidents have led the German government to severely curtail HK's access to that market (I forget if it's still shut down at this time)
 
Tom Servo said:
It's just too late.

If they truly wanted justice, Issa and Grassley should have squeezed the SAC's at the Phoenix field division. The agents who planned and executed the operation (and for which there was plenty of proof) should have been prosecuted. That didn't happen.

If they wanted the truth, they might have offered immunity deals or reduced sentences for those who had something to reveal. That didn't happen. . . .
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It seems we've plowed this ground before but Grassley and Issa (and Congress in general) have no authority to prosecute. That is strictly an executive branch responsibility. Immunity would be limited only to not using the SAC's testimony in Congress in any criminal investigation. Don't you think the administration would have prosecuted these guys if they had talked, even under threat of contempt (which the executive branch enforces)? The ONLY card they had to play was in the court of public opinion.
 
Very few folks really care about what happened in Operation Fast and Furious. Issa ran a political charade, making excuses for and lying about another gun running operation ran by a president of his own party. At no time did Issa and his inquisitors recommend an overhaul of the BATFE.

Yep, the murder of Brian Terry was a travesty. But the murder of Brian Terry pales in comparison with the murders of dozens, perhaps hundreds, of Mexican nationals with Fast an Furious guns. No one talks about the murders of those Mexican citizens because very few US citizens really care.

Fast and Furious is a dead issue. Nothing will happen to the BATFE agents who designed and ran the operation or their political appointee handlers.

The current US Justice Dep't. is up to it's butt in alligators defending itself. They don't have time for anything else.
 
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thallub said:
Issa ran a political charade, making excuses for and lying about another gun running operation ran by a president of his own party. At no time did Issa and his inquisitors recommend an overhaul of the BATFE.
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Assuming you are referring to Operation Wide Receiver, that statement is hogwash and you should be ashamed for misrepresenting it in that fashion. If you aren't referring to that, than I should be ashamed for not knowing what you are referring to.
 
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Assuming you are referring to Operation Wide Receiver, that statement is hogwash and you should be ashamed for misrepresenting it in that fashion. If you aren't referring to that, than I should be ashamed for not knowing what you are referring to.
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Go ahead and censor whatever you want to censor. It matters not to me. As an instructor i had Issa as a student in EOD school. i don't remember him. My good friend was the NCOIC of an EOD unit where Issa was a member. Jay Bergey says Issa stole his car. Issa has been accused of other car thefts. i believe that Issa has serious character issues.


"That kid stole my car out of the parking lot and took it to Cleveland, and I knew he did it,” said retired 1st Sgt. Jay Bergey, who served with Issa in 1971 on the 145th Ordnance Detail, an Army bomb squad stationed near Pittsburgh.
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http://www.mediaite.com/online/not-so-grand-behind-rep-darrell-issas-three-auto-theft-accusations/
 
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