Extra Soft .45s

U

uncle.45

New member
Hi, Guys!
My wife shoots a Ruger Mark III that I built for her,(2.0 lb. trigger) and is spoiled by nearly recoilless shooting. She's very good with it!
Every now and then I get her to shoot my 1911, and she likes it except for the recoil.
I currently load 185g RNFP on top of 5.2g of Hodgdon HP38, and they aren't very much more than a bunny fart, but she still wants less recoil.
Hodgdon's manual gives a starting load of 5.0g.
Do any of you have first-hand experience running loads that light? Will it cycle my 5" 1911 properly?
I would like for her to enjoy the 1911, but I won't sacrifice reliability for it.
Even plinking at the range I insist on 100%.
Any input would be appreciated.
 
Your .45 fit her hand? That will affect felt recoil more than anything. A lot boils down to if she doesn't like it, don't force it on her.
However, there are 155 grain cast loads on Handloads.com. Mind you, they're faster than your HP38 load.
 
Not that I'm trying to get you to buy another pistol...

But, have you thought about a full-sized (or 80% anyway) Government style in 9mm or even .380?

Beretta 82, Star M-S, Browning HP35, Browning 1911-380, Colt Mustang, etc.

There are quite a few big, steel frame auto pistols that shoot 9mm and .380 that are very low recoil and very soft shooters. I think that's a better option than trying to underload a .45ACP. That can cause problems, especially in a less experienced shooter. It is possible for a squib round to cycle and go back into battery.
 
Please consider dropping a 9 or 10 lb recoil spring in your 1911 and shooting powder puff loads, that should make it more comfortable for your wife. And, in a minute you can swap back to a 16lb spring and shoot full power loads.

I have had very good results with 3.7 gr of bullseye and 185 gr SWC bullets, and with 4.0 gr win 231/ HP38 and the same 185 gr SWC bullet
 
I've had my eye on a 12 lb. recoil spring.
I think I will give that minimum load a whirl as soon as it comes to the mailbox.
If I don't like it, I will tell her to stick with her .22.
At 5 cents a round, it is easier on my wallet if she shoots .22s anyway.
Thanks guys!
 
Uncle.45,

That load is heavier than a lot of target loads. I used to shoot 3.8 grains of Bullseye, the equivalent of about 4.0 grains of HP38, behind that bullet weight for gallery loads (50 foot indoor targets) in my Goldcup. I did use a 10 or 12 lb springs most of the time back then, IIRC.

For felt recoil there are several things you can do. One is install a square bottom firing pin stop. I have not used one with light match loads, but I have used it with 200 grain match bullets over about 4.5 grains of your powder with, IIRC, a 14 lb spring. EGW's square bottom stops at that link require some hand fitting (the drop-in stop they make is not square bottom; check with them on whether or not they make one that is). The radiused bottom edge was introduced with the A1 to make cycling the slide easier for soldiers who complained about it, but the square bottom was Browning's original design. What it does to recoil is not obvious. Much of perceived recoil in the 1911 occurs when the slide stops against the frame via the recoil spring guide, which is a sharp and sudden transfer of slide momentum to the hand that torques the muzzle up in an arc. The square bottom guide causes the hammer to be cocked from a point closer to the hammer pin, reducing mechanical advantage and making that cocking (and manual slide cycling) harder to do. That, in turn, delays the start of the slide's recoil, delaying it a little and reducing its momentum, so the gun recoils straighter back into the hand and the muzzle jump is reduced. The first time one of my fellow Gunsite attendees was next to me on a firing line with that stop in place, he commented that my muzzle was almost not moving up at all. It feels like firing a gun with a lower barrel line does. This causes the perception of total recoil to be reduced.

You can also put in buffers, but I've never personally felt they did much, and certainly not as much as the square bottom firing pin stop does. I've never tried the two together, though, and that might be and advantage.
 
Thanks Unclenick!
I was looking for someone with firsthand experience with very light loads.
I also just ordered the Wolff spring pack that has springs as low as 9 pounds.
Since the 1911 runs (barely) at that load I think for every 1/10th gn I reduce the powder load from 5.2 I will reduce the recoil spring by 1 pound.
Thus a load of 4.6 gr should in on a 9 to 10 pound spring.
Does that seem about right?
 
Have you loaded down to the point where cycling becomes erratic? You might as well figure out how low you can go with the current setup. I can run all my 1911's with 4.2 grains of Bullseye and a 200 grain SWC. I tried 4.0 with my Kimber TLE and Colt GCNM last time at the range and they worked OK. I figured there might be some hickups going that low in those guns because they seem to have higher powdered recoil and mainsprings than others I've got but now I've got to go even lower to try and find the floor.
 
I use 185gr LSWCHP by Precision Delta, 3.2gr of Titegroup, and a 12 pound recoil spring for light target loads in my 1911.
 
Thank you for the input guys!
This is the info I needed.
I am going to the range this afternoon.
I'm in 'my room' now to load some at 4.0g to see if it runs with a 16lb. spring.
If not, I will use the calibration pack and work my way down to a spring that will let it run.
Thanks again everyone!
I have no experience with such low loads. Knowing that I can go that much lower is a big help.
I'll give an update after the range late today. :)
 
That's the way to do it. You want the stiffest spring that still works with your load. The 1911 slide doesn't have to go 100% into counterbattery to successfully strip and feed the next round if the spring is strong enough. This is why there is room for buffers and pads that stop it short of full counterbattery. If you pick the right spring and load combination, you will find one that doesn't quite let the slide go all the way back so it never smacks into the frame. This changes it over from sharp recoil to spongy soft recoil. The only drawback is that the spring choice that works for you may not work for another person, as it is affected by solidly behind the gun you are. It could work for you, but if your wife's wrist isn't as strong and she doesn't have as much mass behind it, it may not function the gun properly for her, and she may need a weaker spring.
 
At least I have a starting point now.
My 1911 will not run at all on a 16 lb. spring with a 4gr load.
I cycled it manually after each shot so my wife could shoot it, though, and she fell in love with it.
When the calibration pack gets here I will try one magazine with a 14lb. spring, and if needed try a 12lb. spring, etc. til it runs reliably.
Then it will be ' good to go'.
 
I've done a few

I'm a little late to the party here. But I've worked up - or should I say down a few light 1911 loads. All with 200gn LSWC's.

You mention you won't sacrifice reliability. The following loads are reliable with a 12lb recoil spring. They may work with a little more spring; but definitely won't operate with a standard 16 pounder.

Again, all with 200gn LSWC's. I use Missouri Bullet's soft cast: http://missouribullet.com/details.php?prodId=56&category=5&secondary=13&keywords=.

3.4gn Bullseye - 659 f/s. Doesn't run clean.

3.0gn Nitro-100 - 704 f/s. Runs clean.
2.4gn Nitro-100 - 591 f/s. Doesn't run clean.

3.2gn Vihtavuori N-310 - 648 f/s. Runs clean.
2.8gn Vihtavuori N-310 - 586 f/s. Doesn't run as clean.

All of these are soft running. And all of these are tac-driver accurate.
 
Thanks Nick!
I'll save those for possible future use, but right now I'm going to finalize a light target load with the 8lb. jug of HP38 I have on hand,
then load/shoot, load/shoot, load/shoot,etc!
 
The downside to semi-auto's is a certain amount of power must be generated to make it cycle. A revolver is not hampered by this.
You may want to invest in a wheel gun for target shooting. I was amazed how much less the recoil felt in a 45 acp revolver than my 1911, the slide, forced back and slamming forward , generates what feels like recoil. In the revolver that is not present and with any light load that the bullet will exit the barrel will work just fine.
Give revolvers a try for the recoil sensitive ....my wife agrees.
Gary
 
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