Extra power of a .357 snubby over .38 special, is it worth it?

I admit horrendous was a slight overstatement about recoil.

Here's a good desription (I think):

A superlight snubbie; i.e. 12 or 16 oz., kicks like a 300win. mag, sharp and hard.
A big mag; i.e. 454 super redhawk, kicks like a 31/2" 12 gauge mag load, still hard, but more of a push than a smack.

This make sense?
 
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dual shooters

Given a choice, I'd always get the .357 . My wife can shoot them with .38s & work her way up to the .357 loads. For defense I like 2 .357 glasers followed by silvertips. I find these loads quite controllable in my S&W 649.
 
38s vs 357s

That's good advice to buy the 357. Then you can be assured you can shoot what you find works best for you. If you handload you can play around and it's surprising how accurate you can get. When you find a load that works best stay with it. That's all I shoot or practice with. (tho I usually have a stash of 357s loaded to the hilt in another pocket for emergencys) I find I shoot better if I don't practice with lighter loads. Experment all you can and shoot all you can afford.
 
The accuracy argument is kinds moot when it comes to J-frames. The gun is not designed to provide tight groups at 15 yards. The J-frames are a save your bacon at close ranges gun. Well over 90% of SD shootings occur at ranges under 20 ft. the majority of that 90+% occur at distances under 10 ft. so were talking 3-5 steps away. Even beginners can hit the middle of the chest at those type of distances.

As far as recoil if your involved in a scenario where you or your families life is in immanent danger and your about to act then adrenaline takes over and you will not notice the extra recoil.

As far as the performance of a .38+p vs. a .357, the 2 rounds who awesome street record that will never be disputed as "the ultimate man stoppers" are the .45 and the .357 Magnum. The .38+p is a good round but whether it being fired from a 2 inch bbl. or a 6 inch bbl it will not achieve enough velocity or energy to expand. The .357 Mag from a 2 inch bbl. is neutered, but expansion is still reliable and velocity and energy is still much higher than a .38's.
 
I DO handload, and a .357 usually shoots .38 Special or +P rather poorly compared to a .38 Special revolver. In fact, this shows up more with high-quality handloads. There is not such a disparity that it is useless for that application or anything, but people often advise a .357 for a first wheelie, due to "3 in 1." That can be misleading. I think that IS really good advice, but used .38 Specials are as common and cheap as dirt. You can then "move up" to .357 with the confidence that you will have TWO guns to shoot .38!

A decent .357 is probably the most all-around useful handgun BY FAR. (In fact, I can't even imagine what it's competition would be.) However, it is easier to learn on a mid-sized .38 Special. You can get one of each, gently used, for what a new .357 costs. I don't have anything against .357 guns, but they can discourage some new shooters (if .357 is too much and .38 isn't grouping well). People that grew up shooting forget all those years with the .22 and .410 that some people don't have under their belts.
 
People that grew up shooting forget all those years with the .22 and .410 that some people don't have under their belts.
Click to expand...

Good point, Cee-Zed. I had almost forgotten about that. I was fortunate enough to have a father that taught us the important things.

I remember when my dad took us shooting when we were lads. We fired about 1,000 rounds of 22 for each round of centerfire we were allowed to fire.

He let us shoot his service revolver, a nickel Military & Police 5", IIRC, about two shots each. That was a real experience for a ten year old! I guess a new shooter coming up would have the same emotional shock I did at that young age. Of course we moved on to 30 carbines, 30/06, 12 gauge, 45 Auto, 357 Magnum, 44 Magnum, etc. and never gave it a thought about recoil or muzzle blast due to our early familiarization.

Things were a lot more fun in those days!
 
Hello,

I would appreciate some clarification if possible.

accuracy of .38 vs. .357 in a .357...

I can see if there is a different point of aim due to the sights being dialed in for a particular load or cartridge. But... after the cylinder and cylinder gap, both bullets are traveling down the same 2.5" of barrel, no? As long as no lead is being shaved when the same bullet enters the same bore then what would be the mechanism for getting a tighter group with the .357? I don't own a revolver and have never compared both cartridges out of a .357, so I'm not saying anyone is wrong... just wondering.

thanks
 
shoulder

I think people are refering to the shoulder for the longer.357 chamber. The shorter .38 hits the shoulder during its passage out of the cylinder. This can shave lead or slightly deform the bullet resulting in larger groups. However this is not a great consideration at the ranges the snubbies are designed for.
 
Cee-Zed, you said . . .

"a .357 usually shoots .38 Special or +P rather poorly compared to a .38 Special revolver."

If you don't mind, I'd like to piggy-back my question onto this thread.

I recently shot my first .38/.357 revolver and I was astonished how accurate and mild the .38 sp rounds were. The .357 was not as hard to shoot as I'd expected either.

I am a plinker/target shooter, not a defensive shooter. After firing that gun: Ruger GP100 4" .357, I wanted one. But I _know_ I don't need a .357 gun -- not now, not in the future (too expensive and noisy for my purposes).

So would I be better served with a .38 special revolver? Your statement above seems to indicate that.
 
I honestly think that you would be better served by a .38 Special in your situation. I already "piggy backed," since I forgot there were about three similar threads going on right now. Most of what I was talking about does NOT really apply in a snubby. I will be honest and say that there are a lot of factors involved here. For most people using jackted factory ammo, it's a bit of a moot point even in a larger frame.

In your situation, what I would really advise is buying a used mid-sized .38 Special (like a K-frame S&W or Ruger equivalents) to learn on. These can be found in the $100-$250 range depending on your region, their condition, etc. Then you can decide what you want next: a .357 snubbie, a .357 L-frame, a really nice .38 Special target revolver, etc., etc., etc. Then you have TWO guns that will shoot .38 Special when you want it. Or you can sell that .38 for exactly what you paid (maybe a little more if you got an exceptionally good deal). That is another advantage to the used revovler market these days.

Accuracy: A .357 Magnum revovler is capable of shooting .38 Special and .38 +P. To my mind the key word is capable. The fixed sights are generally set up for a 158gr Magnum loading. Accuracy is generally good, but there are some built-in limitations.

As vulcan noted:
"The shorter .38 hits the shoulder during its passage out of the cylinder. This can shave lead or slightly deform the bullet resulting in larger groups. However this is not a great consideration at the ranges the snubbies are designed for."

At first, people love the .38 in a heavy framed, long barreled .357. It has virtualy no felt recoil with decent grips. Eventually, you will get frustrated with .38 Special in particular, because it will limit your potential skill. It has too many obstacles to overcome for best accuracy. The shorter .38 also has a much longer run at the forcing cone. With a +P load, this is somewhat minimized. It does no lend itself to great accuracy with softer lead bullets in either configuration.

Vulcan was correct about snubbies. As far as they go, it is almost irrelevant, because the short barrel probably limits the potential of the hangun more than any other factor (except the shooter).

Short answer: I was actually arguing in favor of BOTH. Not really one over the other. You could EASILY buy two top quality used revovlers for what new .357s cost. If all you want to do for now is shoot .38, you are better served by a .38. You would be paying for a "feature" you are not really using, if nothing else. I have shot revolvers most of my life, but they have been the same 10 or so in the immediate family. Others may have very different experiences with .38 in a .357. I would not pay extra for the .357 if I was never going to shoot .357 Magnum.
 
'Zed, thanks for the reply. I was certainly only interested in a used revolver here, not a new one. So I guess I'm going to get that .38 special 4 incher.

You mentioned S&W Kframe and Rugers. Are there any I should stay AWAY from?
 
Cee-Zed I've not had the problem (38s shoot rather poorly out of a 357) you experienced. Or least didn't notice it. I was shooting 357s when I discovered I could load a 38 to +p and still get the power I needed and they were so much easier to carry. I have a Smith mod 66 ss with a 6'' barrel and a Ruger ss Security Six with 6". both have adj sights and both shoot 38s extremely well. Funny tho they shoot Herco Powder better than anything I've found. my $0.02
 
For a somewhat peripheral comparison...

RBCD distributes a specially patented and proprietary self-defense ammo called "platinum plus." It is a TFSP: "totally fragmenting soft point." I've fired this stuff and it is both stout and accurate, although it's POI is a bit low, due to the lightweight projectile.

The .38 spcl round, which weighs just 60 grams, goes out at 1705 FPS and hits with 385 lbs energy. Conversely, the .357 mag round, which weighs exactly the same, goes out at 1975 FPS but hits with a whopping 520 lbs of energy.

I'm planning to buy either a 342PD or a 340PD and this is the ammo I want to carry. I think there is a significant difference.

Not only that, but the RBCD is a STANDARD-PRESSURE round and with the light projectile, recoil is amazingly light, which keeps the gun on target for repeat shots......tough to do with a .357 mag.
 
Thirties,

I honestly don't have much experience with other brands. I have shot a few Colts, and I was impressed by them also. Colt has been in and out of DA revolver production several times, so they are less common and more expensive as a group. People are often hard on Taurus and Rossi. I have NEVER shot a Rossi. The few Taurus guns that I have shot were OK. Their quality seems to have improved over the years.

I would give some of the European wheelies a WIDE BERTH. I have never heard anything good about Arminius. A local gun shop has an Arminius on display that is in about 8 million pieces. It "blew up" from a steady diet of light .38 target loads. (At least that is what I am told.) The owner is an older lady who collects Colt SAAs.
 
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