Exploding Bullets in House Fire

[JohnKSa]

I had a rifle shell with a primer in it. I had figured the same as above. So I put it in the fireplace and the primer cooked off penetrating through the flesh in my lower leg, missing bone. That's about four inches, made a perfectly round hole the size of a primer. The x-ray clearly showed it was a primer.

Good information. That agrees well with a study I read many years ago. The primers have the potential to be deadly but standard fire-fighting gear (at least according to the study) was sufficient to prevent injury.

 

[medalguy]

A good friend of mine is a retired fire district captain from the Houston Fire Department. I asked him a while back if there was any danger to firefighters from ammo in a burning building. He said ordinary turnout coats were sufficient to protect anyone from flying brass or primers. If they properly used face shields they were completely protected.

 

[jimpeel]

An author for the NRA magazine wrote an article about this subject. He cited the difference between contained and uncontained ammo. He set up a test stand where he used a Burnz-O-Matic torch to set off various calibers of ammo. He aimed the ammo at a standard fire jacket. The rounds did not cause any damage whatsoever regardless of caliber.

I made ten copies of the article and took them to my local fire department for the firemen to read.

This reminds me of when Labgrade died in the fire that burned down his home. The next day, the fire restarted and the ammo left unexploded started cooking off. Everyone said it was his final sendoff.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147661

 

[jason_iowa]

if rounds are cooking off we don't go in unless its a rescue situation. Otherwise we let the house burn to the ground.

I have been fired at in combat and would have no problem going in to save your children or even pets but the point is saving what's left of your house is not worth the chance of a firefighter getting injured. We will prolly hose down your neighbors house so the fire does not spread.

Don't expect me to feel bad about what your insurance will replace.

 

[thallub]

In my 45+ years as an EOD guy i've destroyed a billion or two rounds of small arms ammunition by burning, mostly in open pits covered with scrap wood. Seldom does a bullet or cartridge case travel more than 20 feet when small arms ammunition burns unconfined.

When steel cased ammunition in the larger calibers are burned small fragments of the cartridge cases can be projected at a good velocity. Steel cased 12.7mm and 14.5mm ammunition is dangerous when burned.

 

[JimPage]

jimpeel: "An author for the NRA magazine wrote an article about this subject. He cited the difference between contained and uncontained ammo. He set up a test stand where he used a Burnz-O-Matic torch to set off various calibers of ammo. He aimed the ammo at a standard fire jacket. The rounds did not cause any damage whatsoever regardless of caliber."

It was based upon this and other articles with similar information that made me put the capped case in the fire. I was shocked that the primer went through my leg.

 

[44 AMP]

many years ago, while overnighting in a hunting cabin, a loose .308 Win round got mixed in the some paper trash, and went into the stove. A few minutes later, a loud bang, and few "ptinks" were heard.

next morning, cleaning out the stove (we cleaned our shorts the night before) the .308 case & bullet were found, the case had ruptured (blown out) and several small chunks of brass had "grenaded" the inside of the stove.

While brass fragments (or the primer) can cause injury,you have to be very close to the case when it explodes. Standing right next to the fire in street clothes is not recommended.

From a practical perspective, a firefighter in full bunker gear stands very, very little chance of injury from ammo cooking off in a fire.

However, the presence of ammo cooking off also implies there are other things in there that either are, or could burn/detonate (solvents, powder, aerosols,etc..) so since things are replaceable and lives are not, policy is to let hazardous materiels burn, if no lives are at risk to do so.

Fireman also do not enter burning areas where fuels or paints are stored, if no lives are at risk. Cellar Savers/Silo Savers (volunteers) and full time professionals ARE heroes, not because they will allow unoccupied buildings to burn down from time to time, but because they WILL and DO go into burning buildings to rescue people.

 

[scrubcedar]

I have an uncle who tried this with a .22lr as a kid. He was looking closely at the .22 that had been in the heat awhile, bad time to be looking, it cooked off at that moment. The base part of the case ended up in his cheek, completely covered. He told Grandpa that he fell on a stick because he knew he'd be in trouble for fooling around with live ammo. Of course the wound wouldn't heal that way and became badly infected. When they finally took him to the doctor he opened the wound and fished out the brass. Mom said she wasn't sure after Grandpa got ahold of him which cheek hurt most It would be a little hard for me to say they're harmless, I've seen the scar. I don't think that it would have pentrated the bunker gear firefighters wear, but I'm with them, little pieces of shrapnel all over while I'm fighting a fire? People are still more important than property.

 

[Silver Bullet]

I can't expect any fireman to put himself in harms way to protect any kind of property.

Isn't that what firemen do? Isn't the risk from the fire much greater than any random ammo pops ?

 

[Frank Ettin]

...Isn't the risk from the fire much greater than any random ammo pops ?

It isn't the random ammo pops that are the risk. The powder is an accelerant. It burns hot and in quantity can increase significantly both the heat and speed of the fire. A couple of boxes of cartridges shouldn't be a problem. But some folks, especially active competition shooters might have several thousand rounds, or more, on hand.

See post 16:

As a volunteer fireman myself, I wouldnt worry about the rounds cooking off but the flamables causing higher temps which in turn causes a flashover...

 

[Capt Rick Hiott]

I was a fire fighter for many years, and went to one house where the had ammo going off,,,I never slowed down. Knocked the fire out and went out side and cooled off. It was no big deal.

What will scare you is after you put out a house fire and find a full bottle of propane in the closet............................That will scare you!!!!

 

[Silver Bullet]

The powder is an accelerant. It burns hot and in quantity can increase significantly both the heat and speed of the fire.

Got it.

Thanks.