I haven't been on in awhile but saw an article in the news about firemen letting a house burn down because of exploding ammo. Which brings me to the point of pistol safes. Almost all pistol safes have zero fireproofing in them. Great to keep the kids away but not the most secure. I would suggest a safe that has at least a one hour minimum fireproof. Safes are a very important part of overall security. I sell safes for a living at http://www.valuesafes.com and we discuss these things all the time. I just wanted to put a reminder out there.
Exploding Bullets in House Fire
- Thread starter gilmorez
- Start date
No worries about bullets exploding in a fire because they are simply inert projectiles composed of lead or some combination of lead, copper, etc. The bullets contain no explosive or combustible material.
Loaded ammunition (cartridges) however are a different story. They can burn in a fire, and the usual result is that the bullet, being much heavier than the case stays pretty much in place as the round cooks off, and the empty case will go flying to some distance. Since the cartridge has not been contained in a firearm chamber, pressures are diminished rapidly, and as a result there is no bullet being expelled at high velocity as from a firearm.
Loaded ammunition (cartridges) however are a different story. They can burn in a fire, and the usual result is that the bullet, being much heavier than the case stays pretty much in place as the round cooks off, and the empty case will go flying to some distance. Since the cartridge has not been contained in a firearm chamber, pressures are diminished rapidly, and as a result there is no bullet being expelled at high velocity as from a firearm.
stumper1300
New member
Of course all bets are off when a loaded firearm is involved in a fire.
Crazy88Fingers
New member
I can't imagine a loose round would be able to do much harm to a firefighter in full duty gear. As exnodak wrote, a loose bullet doesn't have much power without a barrel to focus and direct its energy.
Unloaded ammunition (ammunition not currently chambered in a firearm) is pretty safe. If the bullet comes out of the case, it's usually the case that will be going the faster of the two and neither will travel any significant distance because there's no chamber or bore to channel the discharge energy sufficiently to achieve much velocity.
To the extent that ammunition is dangerous in a fire it would be if the primer ejects and the case stays with the bullet. The primer can travel at very high velocity under those circumstances because it is very light. But because they are very light, they don't have sufficient mass to penetrate standard protective fire gear. Wouldn't be a good idea to go waltzing in there in street clothes though.
Loaded guns will discharge just as if they were fired normally and will be just as dangerous too.
To the extent that ammunition is dangerous in a fire it would be if the primer ejects and the case stays with the bullet. The primer can travel at very high velocity under those circumstances because it is very light. But because they are very light, they don't have sufficient mass to penetrate standard protective fire gear. Wouldn't be a good idea to go waltzing in there in street clothes though.
Loaded guns will discharge just as if they were fired normally and will be just as dangerous too.
I'd recommend storing ammunition seperately from your firearms if you're worrked about fire. It's probably going to be a loss anyway, no sense in taking the chance that it's going to cause worse damage to your guns by being in the same container.
Agreed a loaded round in a chamber represents a loaded gun that can cook off and kill a fireman.
Just loaded ammo is not a particular hazard.Long ago,NRA did a demo on TV,put a 30-06 round on a hot plate and a cardboard box over it.Nothing penetrated the box.(Makes you wonder about Waco,huh)
Quantities of powder are supposed to be stored in 1 in pine lumber,so minimal pressure can open the box.Steel ammo cans,etc,not so good,maybe.
Whether the danger was real or not,I cannot fault a firefighter for making that decision.I do not see it as anti-gun politics,I see it as wanting to see the family again.
Just loaded ammo is not a particular hazard.Long ago,NRA did a demo on TV,put a 30-06 round on a hot plate and a cardboard box over it.Nothing penetrated the box.(Makes you wonder about Waco,huh)
Quantities of powder are supposed to be stored in 1 in pine lumber,so minimal pressure can open the box.Steel ammo cans,etc,not so good,maybe.
Whether the danger was real or not,I cannot fault a firefighter for making that decision.I do not see it as anti-gun politics,I see it as wanting to see the family again.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
That's true. I suspect that the real hazard for a firefighter is that the powder burns quite hot and is a good accelerant.JohnKSa said:
Come and take it.
New member
I don't believe exploding ammo would be lethal unless the case hit you in the eyes and with a thick fire resistant outfit the chances of even getting a bruise would be small. the bullet itself will probably only move a few inches.
FrankenMauser
New member
Fire ratings are all over the places. Since you sell safes for a living, I'm sure you're well aware of that.
The biggest problem with generically recommending a "one hour" safe, is the actual rating.
What temperature is it rated for?
Direct flame?
Front, back, sides, bottom, top?
Not all fire ratings are created equal.
BPowderkeg
Moderator
COWARDS !! plain and simple.
just my OPINION
aarondhgraham
New member
Cowards?
That's kind of harsh,,,
I can't expect any fireman to put himself in harms way to protect any kind of property.
I would only expect them to enter if someone was still inside.
I'm not one of these people who believe firemen are automatically heroes,,,
But to call them a coward for not wanting to enter a burning home where ammo is stored is definitely out of line.
If no one is inside,,,
Let the dang house burn,,,
That's why we have insurance.
Aarond
.
That's kind of harsh,,,
I can't expect any fireman to put himself in harms way to protect any kind of property.
I would only expect them to enter if someone was still inside.
I'm not one of these people who believe firemen are automatically heroes,,,
But to call them a coward for not wanting to enter a burning home where ammo is stored is definitely out of line.
If no one is inside,,,
Let the dang house burn,,,
That's why we have insurance.
Aarond
.
Bailey Boat
Moderator
I would actually rather have it burn to the ground than be put out at about 60 or 70%. A total loss is easier to deal with than the damage.
oneounceload
Moderator
About an inch or two from the case - try it sometime - let a round cook off and you will it goes "poof" and the bullet and case separate about an inch. Things kept where pressures can build up are a different story
As a volunteer fireman myself, I wouldnt worry about the rounds cooking off but the flamables causing higher temps which in turn causes a flashover. Cowards I think not, like they say about the troops if you cant stand behind them feel free to stand in front of them. Flashovers dont injure they kill plain and simple.
Edit: And just like the military we have a chain of command, we have to follow the orders we get. If its "stay the hell out of there", then we stay out. Firefighting isnt anything like the movies, you cant see a foot in front of you most of the time. It isnt run in the building with a hose and spray the tiny little fire on the bed.
1911Alaska
New member
Yes, I do think this is a serious topic but come on! This guy is just getting free advertising. He has 6 post and every single one of them he puts out a link to his website. This can't be allowed is it? 
I agree, any harm that comes from a cartridge is going to be rare and slight, but it is our local FD policy to back away from homes where rounds are cooking off. I don't do it, but a friend stores all of his reloading supplies and loaded cartridges,(except for those in SD guns and a spare mag or 2) in a separate storage building for just that reason.
This is actual experience with ammo, partially loaded.
I had a rifle shell with a primer in it. I had figured the same as above. So I put it in the fireplace and the primer cooked off penetrating through the flesh in my lower leg, missing bone. That's about four inches, made a perfectly round hole the size of a primer. The x-ray clearly showed it was a primer.
The surgeon removed the primer from just under the skin on the opposite side of the entry wound. The hole was large enough to poor a stream of blood out. There was no pain, I just thought it had bounced off me until I ruined the rug under me with blood. No chance of the wife not knowing
So while I don't think it's so dangerous a fireman should let a house burn down, I don't dismiss the risk of significant injury.
I had a rifle shell with a primer in it. I had figured the same as above. So I put it in the fireplace and the primer cooked off penetrating through the flesh in my lower leg, missing bone. That's about four inches, made a perfectly round hole the size of a primer. The x-ray clearly showed it was a primer.
The surgeon removed the primer from just under the skin on the opposite side of the entry wound. The hole was large enough to poor a stream of blood out. There was no pain, I just thought it had bounced off me until I ruined the rug under me with blood. No chance of the wife not knowing
So while I don't think it's so dangerous a fireman should let a house burn down, I don't dismiss the risk of significant injury.
oneounceload
Moderator
My uncle was a fireman his entire working life - the garage or basement fire was the worst in his opinion due to the flammables - gas cans, paint, etc - mixed with the poisons - garden stuff, etc. ammo, if not kept in a container where pressure builds, will not go zinging everywhere and can be easily put out with water - the other stuff, not necessarily so
Don't keep primers in an ammo can, etc. - if the pressures can escape, the danger is a lot less
Don't keep primers in an ammo can, etc. - if the pressures can escape, the danger is a lot less