explaining to an anti gun person

ccw

i dont carry a gun because i am afraid. i carry a gun at certain times because it enables me to be unafraid.i feelcomfortable knowing that if necessary i can meet deadly force with the same.protecting me and my family is the # 1 reason i have a ccw permit.i would never want to shoot or kill someone but if they pull theirs and are intent on hurting or putting me or my family in grave danger lord have mercy on their soul. PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION !!!!
 
Suzanne Gratia knows why she carries. What she doesn't know is why she left her .38 in the car in Luby's Restaurant's parking lot on March 14, 1997 in Kileen, Texas. As sure as any prediction ever can be made, her parents would have been alive on March 15th if she had carried that day.


Lost Sheep:

You are lost no longer. You have answered all your questions with your post script.
 
At this point I have been carrying concealed for decades and never flashed my peice.

Nobody ever spotted it either....

Most people are not really intelligent people anymore. They are mindwiped McSheeple. It's a waste of time to try and explain anythig to them because Big Media has wiped their minds and made up their opinions for them.

In your situation:
• I'd have covered the gun with my t-shirt in the first place to avoid anybody seeing. You are just asking for trouble that way, and if the Manson Family had a reunion there, they would have taken you out first.

• I'd have asked the girl had she ever heard of the Manson family or seen the movies "Zodiac" or "Last House on the Left' and left it at that.

When the McSheeple realize that only they obey these rediculous gun laws and that wolves like the Mansons, Zodiac or your run of the mill hoodlum ingores gun laws as much as they ignore laws about rape, murder and armed robbery, they decide they want a gun too.

Or you could have told a joke like — For the same reason your manager carries condoms in his wallet when he hasn't picked up a chick in years.Its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
 
When the McSheeple realize that only they obey these rediculous gun laws and that wolves like the Mansons, Zodiac or your run of the mill hoodlum ingores gun laws as much as they ignore laws about rape, murder and armed robbery, they decide they want a gun too.
There's a grain of truth in your reasoning, but...McSheeple? It's McSheeple now? Sheeple wasn't insulting and dismissive enough?

This kind of epithet slinging suggests a level of disrespect that will be an impediment to a polite and reasoned discussion. Granted, most people I encounter who have disdain for guns have not arrived at that feeling through rational analysis. However, there are a lot of things all of us probably take for granted until we have to think logically about them. I am constantly finding myself confronted with newly discovered (by me) facts that don't square with my preconceived notions. I adjust my understanding of the world and move on to the next confrontation with reality. It is imperative that we patiently extend understanding to those who have not (and may not ever) come to the realizations that we find so obvious.

Managing our interaction with information through the often inefficient or erroneous shortcuts of stereotype, prejudice and "common knowledge" is a natural function of being human. No human-ovine hybridization is necessary.
 
There's a grain of truth in your reasoning, but...McSheeple? It's McSheeple now? Sheeple wasn't insulting and dismissive enough?

This kind of epithet slinging suggests a level of disrespect that will be an impediment to a polite and reasoned discussion. Granted, most people I encounter who have disdain for guns have not arrived at that feeling through rational analysis. However, there are a lot of things all of us probably take for granted until we have to think logically about them. I am constantly finding myself confronted with newly discovered (by me) facts that don't square with my preconceived notions. I adjust my understanding of the world and move on to the next confrontation with reality. It is imperative that we patiently extend understanding to those who have not (and may not ever) come to the realizations that we find so obvious.

Managing our interaction with information through the often inefficient or erroneous shortcuts of stereotype, prejudice and "common knowledge" is a natural function of being human. No human-ovine hybridization is necessary.



Well put, and I agree. Though it is hard, we really should always try to engage rationally and reasonably.
OTOH
To carry the analogy even further, how does one get an animal, sheep or otherwise, to do what he wants? By coaxing or beating? Surely a man that coaxes is wiser than he who beats.
 
ya know, we have caved in far too long...too much CC is the only way to go. maybe people wouldn't be upset to see a firearm if more people wore them openly. maybe if more people wore them openly, our goverment might see that legal firearms aren't the ones that need controlled. maybe if people wore them openly there wouldn't be so many many BGs in the first place..i mean comeone, does a wolf attack a dog or the sheep? it goes for the unarmed animale, not the one armed with teeth.


no, none of that will happen because most of us are far too concerned with not making waves instead of making the waves we should be making. it is our right, atleast according to this supreme court, why do we have to conceal? i don't like fat girls in belly shirts or spandex, yet noone makes them dress properly and i'm forced to either put up with it or leave the area when one is around.


and catfish, if that's how you feel, i for one would never step into your business. i , as an LEO, would much rather see people OC as to concealed. for many reasons, and while it's your right to refuse service, it's my right to refuse your business.

and as mentioned earlier, how many BG would actually carry open? i mean, chances are their firearm isn't legal anyway.
 
WHY THE GUN IS CIVILIZATION
By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret)

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then, there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal, that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV; where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.
 
"If you have to ask, you wouldn't understand"
Does that apply here? Or you think it would just make them pissy.
Whatever reaction they would have, it probably wouldn't be positive. It would certainly shut the door to a discussion that may very well end up with someone opening themselves up to the benefits of guns in society.
 
“He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” - Luke 22:36 (King James Version) (caution: this is so out of context that the meaning is most likely the opposite of what it sounds like, read by itself)


Not to get into a religious debate, but Luke 22:36 interpreted in context is Jesus telling His disciples that they should be prepared to defend themselves as they travel the roads which were often filled with bandits. I nor any commentary I have ever read would not interpret it any other way. I am not saying it is a good argument to use, unless of course, you are talking to a Bible believing Christian who does not believe in guns.
 
DieHard06 said:
“He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.” - Luke 22:36 (King James Version) (caution: this is so out of context that the meaning is most likely the opposite of what it sounds like, read by itself)


Not to get into a religious debate, but Luke 22:36 interpreted in context is Jesus telling His disciples that they should be prepared to defend themselves as they travel the roads which were often filled with bandits. I nor any commentary I have ever read would not interpret it any other way. I am not saying it is a good argument to use, unless of course, you are talking to a Bible believing Christian who does not believe in guns.


i think it would be a perfect arguement to use, if that's the whole context of the original quote.(not that famalier with the bible) it couldn't apply any better then, then it actually applies today. honestly, how would it not apply? unless your speaking with an aethest. but then again, unless they are stupid, even they would be able to see the relativity in that verse.
 
mrray13,

I agree with you. I just wanted to specify that I was contesting his interpretation of that verse not the merits of using that verse as an argument with an antigun person.
 
If you open carry you now become a target should a situation arise and most cops will harrass you too. To conceal is better for the element of suprise.
 
Different people have different upbringings and exposures to guns. It shapes their opinions, and some people are just uncomfortable with the idea of guns. Just explain to them that they're for self-defense/fun/hunting/competition and not for hurting anyone. If they don't understand or are uncomfortable, what can you do? Everyone has a right to to their opinion.

IMO, by the way, carrying open is asking for problems. Best to keep it concealed.
 
I once talked with a fella great guy met him at the rod n gun club. He has a few houses one here in B.C Canada, U.S Oregon, and another one I cant remember (in the states). He told me that he hates going to the bar in Canada because theirs always a fight (which is true, but I belive its like that at any bar). He told me that theirs not even half the fights in a bar in the states than canada. He firmly believe the reason is conceal carry. And its a great detterent. He said no one picked fights casue you wouldnt want to pick on a guy who had a conceal carry. I thought this was really neat. I dont think that their is a difference in the fights in bars between Canada and the States but it was just intresting hearing his perspective.
 
After reading this thread and all of its posts, I am now a much bigger proponent of Open Carry. The posters here in favor (or at least in the defense) of open carry have been the ones with the most calm and rational arguments.

I think we gun owners have been forced to feel like criminals for FAR too long. We need to cause waves. Those of us who have a kind demeanor and logical arguments at the ready should open carry for sure (if it is legal in your state)! Those of us who aren't ready or willing to defend the right should conceal. Seems simple enough.

I have yet to see any recorded evidence of an open carrier being the target of violence. So, that tired old argument has very little affect on me. The more I think about it, it seems as if it would be an excellent deterrent. If you are dressed presentably, criminals may just think you are an undercover cop.

I guess I don't have any arguments to make, but I have definitely learned from this thread.
 
Do what the LEO's do!

Some departments require their troops to carry concealed while off duty. I know many if not most LEO's carry concealed.

You give up a decided tactical advantage, perhaps the #1 tactical advantage by open carrying when you could conceal.

A gun on your hip might work in 1890, it don't work in 1990 and beyond.

Discretion is the better part of valor.

I sure can't think of a more appropriate time to use that old saw.
 
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