Expanding FMJ?

C

cosmicdingo

New member
Read about troops getting an expanding 124 grain FMJ to increase stopping power. Apparently it does the job, but would like more info. Anyone know much about it?
 
Since Federal is running Lake City, is it safe to assume its their stuff there using?

They have had EFMJ out for a number of years now in the civilian market. I have a couple of boxes left I got when they first came out, and it seems to work like they advertise, although I havent shot anything "living" with them yet.

What I dont get is, if its the expanding ammo thats the issue for not using them (not that we signed the agreement anyway), why not just use a decent hollow point? The EFMJ's still "expand", so doesnt that keep them on the verboten list for anyone who agreed to the limitations?

Heres a couple of links that popped up on Google that explain things....

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/guns-and-weapons/federal-efmj-ammo/

http://www.thegunzone.com/efmj.html
 
AK103K . . .

You asked: "What I don’t get is, if it’s the expanding ammo that’s the issue for not using them (not that we signed the agreement anyway), why not just use a decent hollow point?"

Here's one answer: For those that live in New Jersey, or other areas where JHPs are illegal and drastically punished, a round like Federal's EFMJ may allow an individual to remain within the law and nevertheless have the tactical advantages of a reasonably expanding projectile.
 
RWK,

I was meaning in a "military" context in regards to the restrictions on expanding ammo.

Youre right about NJ (or the other places that have issue with HP's), and its the main reason I bought the EFMJ's I have now. Its what I take with me when I have to go over there. Luckily, I dont have to go to often. I hate leaving the country. :)
 
I was meaning in a "military" context in regards to the restrictions on expanding ammo.
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I think the Hague Convention prohibits ammunition designed to cause excessive suffering, and I believe it specifically mentions exposed lead at the tip. Most JHPs have exposed lead in the hollow cavity, even if it's completely surrounded by jacket material on the ogive of the bullet.

Federal EFMJs do not. They contain a squishy (technical term) ball behind the jacket and ahead of the lead base, which collapses on impact, allowing the pre-segmented jacket to fold back, creating "wings" of jacket material which increase the size of the wound channel, exactly like JHPs do by peeling back the jacket like a banana. I bought a couple of boxes of 200-gr EFMJs in .45 ACP when I used to visit my cousin in New Jersey. They work fairly well -- not as good as premium JHPs, but quite a bit better than FMJs. Expansion wasn't as consistent as premium JHPs, but like they say, "The .45 may not expand, but it ain't gonna shrink!" ;)
 
Keep in mind also that some guns don't reliably feed HP ammo so the EFMJ's increased feed reliability is a big reason it is popular with many shooters.

-Cheers
 
It's expensive stuff ($25 for a box of 20, last time I saw them in a store), but worth the money IMO.

Federal EFMJs used to be available in +P... I'm not sure if they are anymore, though. All I've seen in the past few years are boxes of standard pressure EFMJ, and even those can be pretty hard to find. The current boxes are the same type they package Hydra-Shok in.
 
How is it that people are bringing EFMJ into NJ? I hope you are active LEO, because if you are not and you are carrying (or even in possession of the firearm locked and unloaded in your car) you are in for a world of trouble if you get caught. And just to clarify, HP is not illegal in NJ. You can buy it, keep it in your home, and transport it to the range. You just can't carry it. But of course, only retired law enforcement can get a carry permit, so all the law does is force retired LE to carry FMJ that they would never carry on duty. Isn't it a great state? Hopefully the pending lawsuit will bring some relief.
 
It can be a chore to find these days, like some other things. Didnt used to be like that, but I guess it is what it is.

I have some on back order now with Striechers, where Ive been getting it all along. Its still not to bad, $23 a box of 50 9mm 124 grain +P's.

http://www.policehq.com/Products/FC-9EX1

Most gun shops are a rip off for this type of ammo. 20 round boxes, and often costing more than the 50 round boxes, is a little annoying. Best to get it on line.

How is it that people are bringing EFMJ into NJ? I hope you are active LEO, because if you are not and you are carrying (or even in possession of the firearm locked and unloaded in your car) you are in for a world of trouble if you get caught.
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You can have a gun in NJ, as well as hollow points, but youre right, dont get caught with or carrying a loaded one. I use to shoot DCM/CMP matches there a couple of times a month for a number of years, and never had any problems. Been stopped a couple of times going to matches too, for speeding, and was let go each time, much to the chagrin of those who lived there. :)

A lot depends where you are and who stops you if theres a problem, and I know people on both ends of that. Even a back seat full of guns that arent even in a cases, and from out of state to boot, isnt a guarantee you'll have troubles. Then again, I have friends who live there that were arrested and had guns confiscated doing everything by the letter, so you just never know. Best bet is, dont get stopped.

Worst part for me is, when I go there, that whole area, on both sides of the river, is the worst part of the trip, so you do what you feel you need to and deal with it. Best part of NJ is seeing it in the rear view as you cross the bridges back into the states.
 
I happen to be LEO in New Jersey. You can transport your unloaded weapon in your vehicle without a problem. Stopped quite a few law abiding citizens transporting their favorite work of art and sent them on their way every time. Can't say that I'm happy about the gun laws in my state, or about some uneducated LEO'S, but I guess you find that just about everywhere.
As for the EFMJ round. A representative from Corbon asked me what our retired guys used in their weapons and most used Federal EFMJ. He then came to my department's range and offered to do a ballistics test for my retired guys. After about an hour, his Corbon Powerball outperformed anything that the retired guys offered up. Needless to say that they are all using Powerballs in their weapons now. He wants to come back in the spring and put his DPX up against anything that the active guys want to throw at him.
 
Hey Bravo124. I'm MA LEO and firearms instructor for my PD. My last recert they told us H.R. 218 carry in NJ prohibited HP ammo and mag capacity over 10 rounds. The HP question has already been answered, what about the mag capacity, is this true?
 
The EFMJ probably was made obsolete by Cor-Bon's Pow'R'Ball. Both try to get absolute perfect feed reliability for older or cheaper guns that might jam with JHPs. The EFMJ doesn't expand very fat; it DOES expand, and does so very reliably.

The Pow'R'Ball expands a lot fatter and is packing more energy. Federal is notorious for under-loading their ammo. Cor-Bon is NOT. The Pow'R'Ball design is quite good, probably the best of the "pre-clogged hollowpoints".

A Pow'R'Ball in 9mm has a good chance of expanding past .60", possibly up around .65" or a bit more. An EFMJ will never exceed .57" in 9mm. The EFMJ isn't a "pre-clogged hollowpoint", rather it has a jacket completely covering a rubber nosecone that "squishes" and flattens out the nose without the nosecone jacket breaking.

federal_max192w.jpg


The Hornady Critical Defense is a partial clone of the Pow'R'Ball design. Like a Pow'R'Ball it will "petal open", forced open by the rubber in an otherwise fairly normal hollowpoint. Most of the time the rubber will separate out and what you're left with looks like a normal expanded hollowpoint. The advantage with the rubber pre-clogged setup is that clothes or other materials can't get into the JHP cavity to plug it up...rather, the rubber squishes sideways and starts the expansion process.

As to NJ: I don't know how NJ law treats the EFMJs. It's very, VERY possible a cop looking at unfired examples would never realize they were expanders - they really look like FMJs.
 
The U.S. was not a signatory to the Hague Convention of 1897, though we generally follow it. Declaration III states,
The Contracting Parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core, or is pierced with incisions.

The present Declaration is only binding for the Contracting Powers in the case of a war between two or more of them.

It shall cease to be binding from the time when, in a war between the Contracting Parties, one of the belligerents is joined by a non-Contracting Power.
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http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/dec99-03.asp

So, even expanding full metal jacket bullets seem to be prohibited in a war between signatory states because they "expand or flatten easily in the human body."
 
Pow'R'Ball and Hornady Critical Defense fall into the same category as any other hollowpoint here, since they are hollowpoints that just have something stuffed into the cavity. If you happen to be one of the fortunate few to actually have an NJ carry permit, you can carry EFMJ. The law against carrying hollowpoints specifically targets bullets with a cavity in them, rather than all expanding ammo. I believe this is because EFMJ had not yet been introduced when the law was written.

Take that with a grain of salt, of course... I am not a lawyer and don't play one online.
 
Glad to hear some good words about Corbon Powerballs. I carry them, and thought they might have been rather iffy on their performance. But my options are limited in a finicky gun.
 
From all the data I've seen, I would trust my butt to Pow'R'Balls, esp. in 45ACP. I'd rather have Gold Dots but in either short barrels or a finicky gun the Pow'R'Balls are a good option.

Hard as hell to type fast though :).
 
We are going into thread drift area here, but with regard to the CorBon PowRBall, the only concern I have with them is that they are exceptionally light for caliber. The 9mms are 100 gr and the .45acp are 165 gr, IIRC. That could easily lead to underpenetration.

If I owned a pistol that would not feed JHPs, the PowRBall would be one option. But honestly, fixing it or buying a pistol that feeds JHPs would be my choice.
 
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