You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Executioners Wearing Out Their Pistols?
- Thread starter MoscowMike
- Start date
buck460XVR
New member
I think it might be arguable, though I will agree it was not "ethnic cleansing" in the usual sense, as done by others...it was certainly "ideological cleansing".
One might make the case that since those killed were Poles, not Russians, (or even Soviets) it was "ethnic", but one could make that point about the entire war.
As per definition.....
the mass expulsion or killing of members of an unwanted ethnic or religious group in a society by a more powerful ethnic group.
Hard to claim it was anything else. Those folks were no threat, they were not all military, but were all Polish.
As for Vasily Blokhin.
He did not have to carry out 250-300 executions himself every night, the way he did. He had the power and authority to order others to do it and it could have been done quicker, easier and more humanely. He was dresses as a butcher, covered with blood every night and celebrated in the morning with a hearty meal because he enjoyed it. Serial killers often claim they kill innocent victims because they get a thrill/high from watching the life disappear from the eyes of those they kill. Many times it is a sexual thrill. My guess is that Vasily got a similar thrill, why he insisted on killing his victims, by himself, one at a time, in front of him. It was not a duty thing or a taking orders thing, but selfishness and the lust of killing folks that he felt empowered over. Probably why he turned to alcohol afterwards. Not to drown his memories and nightmares, but as a substitute for the buzz. One has to wonder if he did not secretly kill innocents after the war for the thrill also. Serial killers never stop for long.........
the mass expulsion or killing of members of an unwanted ethnic or religious group in a society by a more powerful ethnic group.
Sounds like a reasonable definition. Now, how does it work when people are killed because of their political / social ideas? And they just happen to be a different ethnic group than the killers?
Is that covered under "religion" in that definition?
Hard to claim it was anything else. Those folks were no threat, they were not all military, but were all Polish.
I disagree, slightly. Those Poles WERE a threat to the Soviet system, that's why they were killed. Never forget that the Soviet system wasn't just communism, it was also totalitarian, and EVERYTHING that wasn't part of their system was a threat to that system, in their eyes.
The ideas and personal beliefs of those Poles killed were the threat, not the physical abilities of the individuals who held them.
Put another way, they weren't killed because they were Poles, they were killed because they weren't good communist Poles. I think that makes it ideological cleansing, not ethnic cleansing, unless political ideology is considered religion as used in the quoted definition.
Its all word games, when it comes to labels and definitions. One of the things the Soviets did was have one of their doctors declare dissenters as mentally ill, so their arrest and imprisonment wasn't a punishment for dissent, it was to help them, to cure them of their mental illness, and re-educate them so they could be productive members of society, again.
Word games.
buck460XVR
New member
Sounds like a reasonable definition. Now, how does it work when people are killed because of their political / social ideas? And they just happen to be a different ethnic group than the killers?
I think that makes it ideological cleansing, not ethnic cleansing, unless political ideology is considered religion as used in the quoted definition.
"Ethnical" can mean a culture or sharing the same social ideas/ideals. "Ideology" is defined as "based on or relating to a system of ideas and ideals. Seems pretty much the same to me.
Its all word games, when it comes to labels and definitions. One of the things the Soviets did was have one of their doctors declare dissenters as mentally ill, so their arrest and imprisonment wasn't a punishment for dissent, it was to help them, to cure them of their mental illness, and re-educate them so they could be productive members of society, again.
Word games.
Your word games, not mine. Seems folks want to subjectively nit-pik definitions in order to validate their argument. Those Poles were killed because of their ethnics, nuttin' else. You claim their ideals were the threat? That's one definition of ethnics and ethnic cleansing.
One can nit-pik definitions all day long, but it does not change the fact those folks were killed because of the culture they came from. It also does not change the fact they were killed by the hands of one very sick person.
Last edited:
Not really picking nits. The Poles are the same ethnicity as Russians. Both are considered Slavs...of course, the Soviet Union had a myriad of "ethnic" populations (Georgians,Uzbeks, Mongols, Turkmen, etc., etc,....as you all know Stalin was not Slavic but Georgian."Ethnical" can mean a culture or sharing the same social ideas/ideals. "Ideology" is defined as "based on or relating to a system of ideas and ideals. Seems pretty much the same to me.
Your word games, not mine. Seems folks want to subjectively nit-pik definitions in order to validate their argument. Those Poles were killed because of their ethnics, nuttin' else. You claim their ideals were the threat? That's one definition of ethnics and ethnic cleansing.
One can nit-pik definitions all day long, but it does not change the fact those folks were killed because of the culture they came from. It also does not change the fact they were killed by the hands of one very sick person.
I would say the greatest example of ethnic cleansing was the Holocaust as was the Armenian massacres as probably Anglo-Saxon eradication of Native Americans. They would pit totally different "ethnicities"
Stalin was more like an Asiatic despot in the fashion of Tamerlane or Genghis Khan than a European statesman like a Churchill, etc.
Does anyone think that maybe the soviets used German pistols and ammo was because if the bodies were discovered and the bullets were examined the blame would go to the Germans. My theory. I've read a couple of books on Beria and Stalin's executioners . One book describes a guy using a luger and killing thousands of German POW'S. . Beria himself was a sexual pervert. He would have his men trol Moscow's streets looking for teenage girls for himself. They would be kidnapped and raped by him. If they said anything the whole family would be departed to Siberia. Who knows how much of it is true but you have to wonder. I cant imagine a Nagant or Tokarov wearing out,not the way the Russians made their weapons. Interesting topic to say the least