excellence in real world shooting !
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FireForged
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Some may argue that good judgment regarding use of force does require the application of force, method of force and [duration] of force to be properly measured. That may require a person to STOP what they are doing. Ask the pharmacist who was recently arrested for the actions he took to stop a robber. He was certainly committed... and it may cost him.
by what standard is it my responsibility to do anything more than what I desire to do after putting him down and taking his weapon? If someone wanted to suggest that stopping him, putting him down and taking his weapon created MORE of a hazard, I think that would be a very difficult argument to make. Can you reference an example of a citizen having to legal responsibility to capture someone in a similar circumstance?
As I said in my very first post, I think she did just fine and she is a hero. That said, there can always be things to learn from critical examination of each moment as is unfolded.
stagpanther
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I think the act of forcing him to roll over and pin him was her way of "full commit" to keep him still--even if tactically-speaking risky. I'll bet she was fully prepared to put him down with a kill shot if he even budged--my guess is she probably said something to that effect. Mother bear and her cubs comes to mind.
Mama bear is right! This happened right at the door of the school where she and the other mothers were picking up their children.
I'm sure you are right about the "kill shot". She would have taken him out in a micro-second had he budged.
I must be missing something. I just don't see how standing over a guy who's been shot 3 times with a .45 or the equivalent and you are holding a gun to his head (essentially) not more than 3 ft away....how is that risky?
On the other hand, not knowing if he might still be armed and leaving him lying in the middle of the street while you retreat to the curb to watch him, with zero backup, seems more risky to me.
But then I'm blonde. Oh wait! So was she!
FireForged
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pretty simple really... and still from a citizen perspective
if you are not there, he has less opportunity to do anything to you- or you to do anything further to him. if you are not there, his accomplice or other compatriots cannot suddenly appear and engage you out of retaliation or in a effort to secure his escape. if you are not there to fight with his compatriots, you wont likely have the occasion to begin a new firefight, perhaps miss a target and harm a bystander. if you are not there rolling him around, restraining him or standing on him.. it would be difficult for him to claim that your continued use of force compounded, made more severe or caused him additional, unnecessary or unjustified injury /suffering. If you are not there taking further actions, you would likely have far less to justify and less opportunity given to others to scrutinize your actions or find fault.
Less is sometimes more
if you are not there, he has less opportunity to do anything to you- or you to do anything further to him. if you are not there, his accomplice or other compatriots cannot suddenly appear and engage you out of retaliation or in a effort to secure his escape. if you are not there to fight with his compatriots, you wont likely have the occasion to begin a new firefight, perhaps miss a target and harm a bystander. if you are not there rolling him around, restraining him or standing on him.. it would be difficult for him to claim that your continued use of force compounded, made more severe or caused him additional, unnecessary or unjustified injury /suffering. If you are not there taking further actions, you would likely have far less to justify and less opportunity given to others to scrutinize your actions or find fault.
Less is sometimes more
I think she did just fine. It helped that she had a few seconds warning. Did y'all notice at the start of the video the woman in the gray dress walking from the left of the screen?
Notice that she points back towards the direction from which the robber comes from and say something to the women. That warning gives our heroine time to position herself and access her pistol in time stop the punk.
Notice that she points back towards the direction from which the robber comes from and say something to the women. That warning gives our heroine time to position herself and access her pistol in time stop the punk.
I must be missing something. I just don't see how standing over a guy who's been shot 3 times with a .45 or the equivalent and you are holding a gun to his head (essentially) not more than 3 ft away....how is that risky?
On the other hand, not knowing if he might still be armed and leaving him lying in the middle of the street while you retreat to the curb to watch him, with zero backup, seems more risky to me.
But then I'm blonde. Oh wait! So was she!
If you don’t think that a person can’t still engage you after 3 in the chest the. You have not studied enough about what handgun loads do to the body. It does not matter what caliber one is shooting. If you do not hit the heart or central nervous system the attacker will still be capable of inflicting a lot of damage. Adrenaline and endorphins are pulsing through their body. The 3 in the chest does not guarantee he is not physically able to harm you.
The gun can be pointed at his head from varing distances IMHO. Please explain to me what tactical advantage was gained by being in physical contact with the attacker.
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He died didn't he? The damage was fatal.
Seriously? She had him totally at bay! She was in complete control. It is obvious! Why do you continue to belabor this point? It worked! If it had failed I could see you going on and on as to why. It worked! She executed it beautifully! With excellence, as the OP pointed out.
He died hours later in a hospital. The wounds were fatal but clearly death was not instantaneous. He was moving and conscious during the entire video. At one point your we’re arguing he’s threat so she should have her foot on him now he is almost dead so he isn’t a threat. Which is it?
Again I am not saving she didn’t take care of business and save the day but that does not mean she did not make mistakes that we can learn from.
Again I am not saving she didn’t take care of business and save the day but that does not mean she did not make mistakes that we can learn from.
FireForged
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Its curious but for some reason you do not seem amenable to mantras, idioms or patois. How do you feel about " two is one and one is none"? Is that a fallacy as well?
I certainly don't mind disagreement but clearly you missed the point.
I never said or indicated in any of my posts or comments that he was not ever a threat while he was still lying there. Please do not twist my words or comments into something they are not in an effort to prove your point. He was a wounded animal and they are always dangerous. That is WHY she was standing so close to him with her gun pointed at his head ready to fire that "kill shot" if necessary to protect all of the innocent victims. She is clearly a skilled, intelligent and courageous woman who has had proper training in how to deal with a scenario of this nature and she pulled it off with courage and determination.
If you want to continue to debate this point that is fine but you will not change my mind. She did everything perfect! IMHO
Frankly I think it's BS. Anymore questions?
No I got it. Loud and clear. Your concern was not so much for the potential victims as it was for your own safety (had you been the defender) or for the potential lawsuit that might have ensued as a result of negligence on your part.
I don't think this is the way heros think. Respectfully.
I guess you know how heros think... at this point there is nothing respectful about your tone or tact. Looking at the video objectively one can make a strong argument that things did not go down perfectly. I will say the outcome was perfect but that does not mean every step towards that conclusion was perfection. Clearly YMMV
LOL. That is a perfect end to the conversation.
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