Evolution of firearms and length of weaponry.

[sgms]

British did used a blunderbuss style gun for use as a naval swivel guns as well as mounted as wall guns in fortified locations for short range work. The few examples I have seen have large bores and are really heavy as in not man portable.

 

[44 AMP]

Military habits die hard, sometimes, and often a feature that has become unneeded will hang on for some time, as long as it has some use, somewhere.

Its rare today that you need the reach to stab someone on a horse, but soldiers still have some kind of knife that fastens to the end of the rifle.

 

[HiBC]

Agreed with the bayonet handle idea,and one other important factor,and I credit 2damoldforthis for pointing it out first.

With a muzzlestuffer,once you fire your shot,its time to reload.

Is good if you can still keep the action in front of you in your field of view.

Rifle butt on the ground,its good if the muzzle comes up near to the chin.

It is something a riflemaker considers...at least my mentor pointed it out to me.

One more thing.Think troops,combat,stress,and the nature of reloading a muzzle loader.A shorter rifle invites the face to be in front of the muzzle.

As this OP was about rifle design,also consider the change from a 60 yard or so rifle shot standing on your hind legs

And more what was seen in WW1.Still need a bayonet handle...but a longer range belly in the mud rifle.Pesky machine guns !

Then,the difference between ranks and long bayonets vs a mad brawl,individual combat,and close quarters.The forte to foible.Parry and get inside.The long bayonets were cut short.Rifles got shorter.

 

[Doyle]

Its rare today that you need the reach to stab someone on a horse, but soldiers still have some kind of knife that fastens to the end of the rifle.

I'm guessing that the only reason it is there today (other than "tradition") is that a bayonete never runs out of ammo while a rifle does. In an absolute last-stand emergency when you are out of ammo, there is always the bayonete on the end of a rifle that could be used to continue fighting.

 

[Colt46]

Barrel length doesn't affect bullet stability

I suppose there are extreme cases where this is true, but the twist rate is what affects bullet stability.

 

[4V50 Gary]

Rifles got shorter because the 30" barrel was no longer needed and that the 24" barrel could do the same job. Engagements at long range and volley fired at long ranges (Mons being the exception) were rare. Shorter barrel meant less metal and more left over for other rifles.

 

[jrwhitt]

I'm guessing that the only reason it is there today (other than "tradition") is that a bayonete never runs out of ammo while a rifle does. In an absolute last-stand emergency when you are out of ammo, there is always the bayonete on the end of a rifle that could be used to continue fighting.

The Brits as recently as 2004 in Basra used a bayonet charge and there are reports of them doing so in Afghanistan too. I'd not say they were obsolete yet.

 

[Buzzcook]

jrwhitt: In the two cases you mention, was the bayonet the sole weapon used or were the firearms loaded?

The bayonet as the main weapon in a maneuver is obsolete. As an accessory to the rifle it still has its uses even if that is just psychological.

The last time we used a bayonet charge was the Korean war.
http://www.army.mil/article/30673/hero-who-led-last-major-us-bayonet-charge-dies/

There's a movie about it iirc.

 

[jrwhitt]

In Basra as I understand it the troops were running low on ammo if not individually out and no prospect of resuply before they were overrun. Not sure about the Afghan one.