Ever a good way to bring this up with LEO?

M

MikeGoob

New member
Ive read a few of the stories on here where some of you have been held at gunpoint by wary police (usually for opencarry or CCW). Some of the more disturbing cases were when its mentioned that the police officer has his/her finger on the trigger! We've all seen the mistakes with this one.

Now, I was trying to figure out, is there ever a good way to suggest to a LEO in that situation to 'please keep your finger off the trigger' without escalating things? If someone is jittery and nervous enough, just mentioning it could cause an accident. What would you do?
 
If he's dumb or scared enough to have his finger on instead of by the trigger you don't want to make matters worse. follow directions and if you think it warants it call Internal Affairs after the fact..
 
If a cop has his finger on the trigger with the gun pointed at me. I will keep my mouth shut, my hands on the steering wheel, and be still, until I am told otherwise. Although I dont believe any officer or CHL holder should have a finger on the trigger until it is time to fire. I would later report him, even though he or she would prabably never get into trouble.
 
I'm not a LEO, but the limited training I've recieved was that if I'm pointing the weapon at someone, my finger should be on the trigger. Is this not right?
 
I am also not LEO but I was trained not to have my finger on the trigger. Think about it...the officer approaches a car, gun drawn, finger on the trigger, stumbles in a pothole or other obstruction, and the gun goes off. It may sound like a stupid scenario. But it could happen. Less likley to happen with his/her finger on the trigger guard where it should be.
 
I'm not a LEO, but the limited training I've recieved was that if I'm pointing the weapon at someone, my finger should be on the trigger. Is this not right?
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No, that most certainly is not right. Having your finger on the trigger invites unintentional shootings. If you need to shoot someone then the time it takes to move your finger from beside the slide to pulling the trigger is inconsequential. When you have your finger on the trigger many many things can go wrong. You could trip while moving and pull the trigger, you could be surprised by someone you wouldn't want to shoot. Being surprised tends to make you tense your muscles... pull the trigger.

Never, ever touch the trigger until you are willing to shoot someone.

Gun Safety Rules
 
Now, I was trying to figure out, is there ever a good way to suggest to a LEO in that situation to 'please keep your finger off the trigger' without escalating things?
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Take it up with his superior in a formal citizen's complaint.
 
I would say something.....should been pounded into his/her head by now. The only time the finger goes on the trigger is when you are going to shoot.
 
...the officer approaches a car, gun drawn, finger on the trigger, stumbles in a pothole or other obstruction, and the gun goes off. It may sound like a stupid scenario. But it could happen.
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Not stupid at all. This HAPPENED. An officer was removing a young man from a car when an officer behind him bumped his elbow. You know the rest...Glock goes boom, County pays out $50 million.

I'll try to dig up the link as it was some years ago.
 
I'm all for the 4 rules of safety. Believe me, I get pounded on by others when I don't think the term "treat the gun as if it's loaded" is right when "all guns are always loaded" is.

However, I think some LE officers should have the chance to chime in before making rash decisions. Protocol for LE may be different.
 
No, that most certainly is not right. Having your finger on the trigger invites unintentional shootings. If you need to shoot someone then the time it takes to move your finger from beside the slide to pulling the trigger is inconsequential. When you have your finger on the trigger many many things can go wrong. You could trip while moving and pull the trigger, you could be surprised by someone you wouldn't want to shoot. Being surprised tends to make you tense your muscles... pull the trigger.
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Thanks for the heads up. Like I said, my training was limited and wasn't really "official". The way I have trained before is to keep my finger off the trigger until the weapon is pointed at the target. If the situation de-escalates, the weapon goes back down and the finger goes off the trigger. I'll have to look into this much more and probably re-train myself. Guess I should have asked someone a lot sooner, never really knew I was doing a no-no. Thanks once again.

To answer the opening post: Obey everything the LEO tells you to do, and when you get a chance in a calm voice, politely ask him to take his finger off the trigger. Don't get upset if he doesn't, do everything he says and complain to his boss later.
 
I had occassion to have two mp5 toting swat team guys pop out on me from flanking positions pointing them at me and both of them started saying walk this way, walk this way to me! Like I can go in two different directions! I stopped and showed open palms outstretched, and as they both approached me I told them lets keep them fingers off of them triggers can we boys, I'm not resisting...I went prone and one of them handcuffed me while the other one kept pointing it at my face with his laser on. I'm laying there all cuffed up behind my back prone on the ground and barney is still pointing his mp5 at my face. Must've been the adrenilne but I got mad! I looked up at him and said get that dam gun out of my face, can't you see I'm subdued?!!...and he flinched, releasing his finger from the trigger. I thought I was going to die. Turned out I wasn't the guy they were looking for. I'd hate to be him.

You can communicate with the officers if you adopt the correct submissive body language posture, dont move, and speak softly but loud enough for them to hear you clearly, speak slowly.
 
It's not just a Glock thing. Col Cooper used to teach it and, just prior to his death, bragged about finally seeing it commonplace in law enforcement and the military (at least with elite units with CQB training).

The problem with having your finger on the trigger is that there are many reflexes (clenching your fists, going palms out to block something, or falling and subconsciously grabbing for things) that will result in your trigger finger flexing and the gun going off. It's happened many, many times.
 
Well, I am a cop and a firearms trainer at my Dept to boot. I have to say, if one of my guys had someone at gunpoint, that person was compliant and they still had their finger on the trigger, I'd kick their butt up between their ears and likely cut off their stupid finger! At the very least, I would see to it that they were written up for it. That is a BLATANT safety violation and is dangerous as hell! We train ALL our guys and gals that the finger stays OFF the trigger until you are ready to pull the trigger. There is too much that can happen with a finger resting on a trigger, especially with Glocks, as most of our guys carry.

Myself, as I was complying with their orders, I would politely ask them to remove their finger from the trigger. Even if they refuse to do so, quit harping on it, you are liable to make him more uptite and increase the chance for a ND. I would, however, complain VERY loudly and VERY vocally to that Officer's superior after it is done, making sure to point out how large the lawsuit would be if they shot you, accidently or not, and you weren't the guy they were looking for. Basically, provided you survive and can convince a jury that the Officer was negligent, you could be set, financially, for the rest of your life and possibly have a city named after you!

Bub
 
I was trying to be a little nicer but bub75 said it all. A few days off to think about would be in order.

We train not to point a firearm at someone unless they are about to get shot. There is a thing called the guard or low ready.
 
To be blunt, my advise is to shut up and do as your told. Commonly the criminal element uses this simple tactic(talking over commands)to distract officers in order to gain an advantage. For those of you who watch "COPS" quite often you see perps screaming "I'm not resisting" while doing just that. Same theory. If you find your self in a situation where PD is drawing on you, don't find a way to unintentionally escalate things. Compliance is always key as the true bad guys never do. Actions speak loader than words.
 
Same theory. If you find your self in a situation where PD is drawing on you, don't find a way to unintentionally escalate things. Compliance is always key as the true bad guys never do. Actions speak loader than words.
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True that!

That said finger on trigger is VERBOTEN and dangerous and frankly stupid. Indexed along slide it takes a fraction of a second to be on trigger, with little chance of an "oh S**t"
 
Not stupid at all. This HAPPENED. An officer was removing a young man from a car when an officer behind him bumped his elbow. You know the rest...Glock goes boom, County pays out $50 million.

I'll try to dig up the link as it was some years ago.
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There have been many such cases, including one on video fairly recently.
 
Im sure Ive read more than one instance in one of the gun forums but I cant find a link now.

Great input guys, thanks.
 
If it's a routine traffic stop there should be no reason for LEO to have his Gun drawn and finger on the trigger if your following proper procedure!! If he just chased you and you didn't stop,or the car's stolen something of that magnitude well his gun should be drawn but no ones finger goes on that trigger till there ready to REALLY pull it to Stop a THREAT.... (PERIOD) any military,LEO or CCW should know that by heart or not have a pistol!!!! When Your involved in a trafffic stop turn off your car. I always have my insurance and reggy together in one spot and my license and ccw together in another,by the time hes at my window one hand is on steering wheel the other is holding all my items I ask what the problem is,offer my info and if he then takes it I Immediately advise him I'm a ccw holder I'm carrying,where gun is and have both hands at 10 and 2 on wheel waiting for his instructions, I have never had any problems,they just ask me to keep my hands where they can see them and are very polite and professional! It's all in how you interact, when you put a gun on you have a big responsibility,act like a professional your treated like you treat others,they percieve you by your actions!That simple.If you don't know the rules put the gun away in a safe place till you do.If a LEO ever had his finger on the trigger for a traffic stop I'd have his sargent notified before the encounter was over!!!Just ask for his field supervisor
 
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