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Establishing residence in a temporary home state...
- Thread starter Papa D
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dogtown tom
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I know.........While he can use that ID for proof of identity, but because it shows a PO Box it is not acceptable to ATF. As I wrote above, he would have to provide alternate government issued documents that show his name and current residence address.2ndsojourn ^^^ dogtown, he obtained a government ID from the AZ DMV.
dogtown tom
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The dealer didn't follow regulations or the instructions on the 4473. The Form 4473 states explicitly that if the ID does not show the current residence address, then the buyer must provide alternate government issued documentation showing name and current residence address.rickyrick When I had a commercial license, they would only mail to a POB therefore my DL had POB on it. The issuing entity had my residential address in their system but only my POB was shown on my state issued license... I had bought guns with that ID
It's NOT perfectly legal.JohnKSa Which would be perfectly legal. In that case, as I understand it, the dealer should have requested that you provide alternative documentation to verify that the address you provided was correct since it differed from the address on your government issued ID.
The dealer should have REQUIRED the alternate documentation. Without such document, the transaction should not be completed.
Seems like we are running in circles, I've never been asked to show proof of residence... Only proof of ID from my state of residence.
I have signed documents stating my residence. After all, that's how the government knows your residence.
The only guff that I've ever gotten from a dealer was;
One time I was looking at a pistol, I handed it over to my then wife to look at... She gave it back to me... I then gave it back to the dealer and said "let me fill out the paperwork"
The guy refused to sell it to me because I let my wife look at it, saying something about not knowing who it was for...
I went back the very next day and bought the same pistol from the same guy
I have signed documents stating my residence. After all, that's how the government knows your residence.
The only guff that I've ever gotten from a dealer was;
One time I was looking at a pistol, I handed it over to my then wife to look at... She gave it back to me... I then gave it back to the dealer and said "let me fill out the paperwork"
The guy refused to sell it to me because I let my wife look at it, saying something about not knowing who it was for...
I went back the very next day and bought the same pistol from the same guy
It is always perfectly legal to provide one's actual current residence address on the 4473.It's NOT perfectly legal.
That is true even if that actual residence address does not match what is on one's government ID--the buyer isn't breaking any laws as long as the current residence is provided on the form.
HOWEVER, the dealer won't (can't legally) complete the transaction without proof that the listed residence is correct. (And that it fulfills any other requirements set forth in Federal law.)
It should go without saying that if the dealer requests information in the course of a sale that providing it is required. Whether it does or doesn't, that's certainly what I meant and you are correct.The dealer should have REQUIRED the alternate documentation.JohnKSa said:...the dealer should have requested that you provide alternative documentation...
The form itselfI've never been asked to show proof of residence... Only proof of ID from my state of residence.
If you were to provide your actual current residence address and it is different from the address listed on your government issued ID then you would not be breaking any laws. HOWEVER, if the dealer were to complete the transaction without
dogtown tom
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No argument there, but that wasn't what I disagreed with.JohnKSaIt is always perfectly legal to provide one's actual current residence address on the 4473.Quote:
It's NOT perfectly legal.
When rickyrick wrote: "I always listed my residential address, just to be clear..."
You answered: "Which would be perfectly legal. In that case, as I understand it, the dealer should have requested that you provide alternative documentation to verify that the address you provided was correct since it differed from the address on your government issued ID."
It's not "perfectly legal" unless the dealer REQUIRES and rickyrick can provide alternate documentation....and according to his last post he has never done so.
That is far from "perfectly legal".
That's the dealers fault, since he's the one that completes Section B of the Form 4473.rickyrick Seems like we are running in circles, I've never been asked to show proof of residence... Only proof of ID from my state of residence.
And that's the point. The idiot dealers you've been buying from haven't bothered to read the instructions on the 4473........and that could cost them their FFL. The point of the 4473 is to verify the identity and current address of the buyer along with his certification that he is not a prohibited person. Those dealers are in serious violation of ATF regulations.I have signed documents stating my residence. After all, that's how the government knows your residence.
Which is his right. Google "Straw purchase".The only guff that I've ever gotten from a dealer was;
One time I was looking at a pistol, I handed it over to my then wife to look at... She gave it back to me... I then gave it back to the dealer and said "let me fill out the paperwork"
The guy refused to sell it to me because I let my wife look at it, saying something about not knowing who it was for...
So should an individual offer proof of residence when purchasing a firearm? I've always just followed along with the dealers wishes, as they are the expert.
This all doesn't matter to me now because all of my ID has my current residence listed. Texas CHL. Licenses do require a physical address on them as well as the other states I hold, so it's not an issue anymore.
I'm just sharing my past experiences and never realized that I was in the wrong.
My intent in the past was to be perfectly legal, but I was not asked by dealers for proof... If they had, I would have had no problem with complying with such a request.
As for the pistol purchase I spoke of, it was for myself, I only let my spouse at the time see it because I felt she had a right to the decision.
This all doesn't matter to me now because all of my ID has my current residence listed. Texas CHL. Licenses do require a physical address on them as well as the other states I hold, so it's not an issue anymore.
I'm just sharing my past experiences and never realized that I was in the wrong.
My intent in the past was to be perfectly legal, but I was not asked by dealers for proof... If they had, I would have had no problem with complying with such a request.
As for the pistol purchase I spoke of, it was for myself, I only let my spouse at the time see it because I felt she had a right to the decision.
As Tom said, the dealer should require it. It seems the dealer doesn't know his job very well..So should an individual offer proof of residence when purchasing a firearm?
The rest of the information posted by John and Tom in this thread is accurate and correct. The original question has been answered, so I'm going to go ahead and close this.
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