Family was relocated at the beginning of the year to a new state for a few months for wife's job. Expect to be here at least 2 more months. If I get a drivers license for my current state, and have proof of residence since the first of January in the form of a rental contract from a realator, would that qualify for the fedrally required 90 day established residence in my current state to purchase a handgun?
Establishing residence in a temporary home state...
- Thread starter Papa D
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kilimanjaro
New member
90 days is 90 days. Offer proof of that, should be good to go.
When I did it, they just took my word for it.
They considered the date of residence as when you start taking steps to establish a residence, or intent.... In other words (as the officials told me) whenever I decided to live there and decide to say....
For sure when you apply for state aid... The clock starts... Otherwise some states don't care.
Some states aren't bothered by law abiding citizens with guns and don't make a big stink about the exact date of residency.
Other states will be a huge deal and you'll need proof
They considered the date of residence as when you start taking steps to establish a residence, or intent.... In other words (as the officials told me) whenever I decided to live there and decide to say....
For sure when you apply for state aid... The clock starts... Otherwise some states don't care.
Some states aren't bothered by law abiding citizens with guns and don't make a big stink about the exact date of residency.
Other states will be a huge deal and you'll need proof
2ndsojourn
New member
You didn't note what states you're talking about. If you're moving to NJ for 2 more months, fuggitaboutit. It just took almost 2 months to process my handgun permits.
dogtown tom
New member
Do you think the answers to your questions have changed since January?
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=557390
You need a government issued photo ID, it does not have to be a drivers license. If that ID does not show your current residence address, then you'll need to provide alternative documentation that shows your current residence address and your name. The alternate documentation must be government issued. A rental contract is not government issued.
There is no such thing as a "fedrally required 90 day established residence".
dogtown tom
New member
For what reason?
There is no such requirement under Federal law or ATF regulations.
Wrong. You must actually reside.....not "take steps" or show intent.
A person’s “State of residence” is defined by regulation in 27 CFR 478.11 as “the State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State.”
https://www.atf.gov/files/regulations-rulings/rulings/atf-rulings/atf-ruling-2010-6.pdf
Dogtown tom, a bit different. Now I am actually thinking about getting my Oklahoma State license instead of driving to Arkansas, which is a few hours away and getting a new license printed with my mom in laws address on it, since she has a smudge on her record from 20 Years ago that prevents her from purchasing any guns. Am I being silly? Would her past prevent me, someone with a clean record, from buying any firearms, if I am shown to share an address?
dogtown tom
New member
For the purposes of acquiring a firearm, ATF considers you a resident of the state where you make your home.
It has nothing to do with voting, paying taxes, drivers licenses, etc.
dogtown tom
New member
No, it isn't.
I believe every state has a requirement that new residents acquire a drivers license with a certain period of time. That requirement has nothing to do with the ID requirements for acquiring a firearm.
Yes.
You are either overthinking how to buy a gun or just ignoring the information given.
No one but you and the gun dealer will know the address you write on your 4473. FBI NICS is not given your street address. Whether it is illegal for you to be in your mothers home with a firearm OR for her to allow you in her home with a firearm would depend on state law.
dogtown tom
New member
ATF considers your State of Residence as the state where you make your home.
-"Planning" is not a requirement.
-it is possible to have more than one state of residence.
-a drivers license is not proof of residence.
Ok I think I understand now....
When I would buy firearms in Texas seems like most retailers would scrutinize pretty thoroughly...
Then there's the Texas CHL, those that have one knows that there's a process you need to follow and some paperwork, ect...
When I moved, after being there more than 90days... I did buy some lowers. Pretty painless... NCIS checks of course, and the usual paper... Showed Id was asked how long I was here, no proof was asked for....
Then I went down to the local sheriffs office and applied for a carry permit, basically the same form for buying a firearm with the county logo pasted on it.... Simple to fill out.... Paid fee and they finger printed me... Few days later my license was in the mailbox... Far easier than Texas for sure.
So I guess for ATF purposes, ID and some proof is needed?
When I would buy firearms in Texas seems like most retailers would scrutinize pretty thoroughly...
Then there's the Texas CHL, those that have one knows that there's a process you need to follow and some paperwork, ect...
When I moved, after being there more than 90days... I did buy some lowers. Pretty painless... NCIS checks of course, and the usual paper... Showed Id was asked how long I was here, no proof was asked for....
Then I went down to the local sheriffs office and applied for a carry permit, basically the same form for buying a firearm with the county logo pasted on it.... Simple to fill out.... Paid fee and they finger printed me... Few days later my license was in the mailbox... Far easier than Texas for sure.
So I guess for ATF purposes, ID and some proof is needed?
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Look at it this way: Is it ever silly to do something the legal way rather than violate the law by trying to sneak around it? What you are asking is really, "Should I be legal, or should I try to beat the system?"Papa D said:
You are moving to (it appears) Oklahoma. You will be a resident of Oklahoma. Even if you put your mother-in-law's address on your driver's license, you WON'T be a resident of Arkansas.
Claro?
Gary L. Griffiths
New member
Just went thru this. Took my 4-month contract for our winter stay at our RV resort to the local gun shop. They advised that they would accept that as proof of residence, but would prefer I get an AZ ID Card. Went to DMV (2 hours of my life I'll never get back) and was issued an AZ ID Card with my POB address on it. Just like that -- they didn't even want to see my contract.
When I went in to pick up my pistol, they got whiney about the POB address, requested I supply a 2nd form of ID. Pulled out the contract, was told, "No, it has to be a GOVERNMENT ID." They finally looked up a parcel of property I own in Pinal County, and used it as "secondary ID."
Almost more trouble than it was worth. Still, it was a NIB Springfield XDM Compact for $418.
When I went in to pick up my pistol, they got whiney about the POB address, requested I supply a 2nd form of ID. Pulled out the contract, was told, "No, it has to be a GOVERNMENT ID." They finally looked up a parcel of property I own in Pinal County, and used it as "secondary ID."
Almost more trouble than it was worth. Still, it was a NIB Springfield XDM Compact for $418.
dogtown tom
New member
Neither of those documents meets the ATF requirements for purchasing a firearm from a licensed dealer.
If you read the instructions on the 4473, you'll note that a government issued photo ID is required. If that ID does not show the current residence address, then alternate GOVERNMENT issued documentation with your name and current residence address must be provided.
-a post office box# is not an acceptable as "Current residence address".
-a rental contract is not acceptable proof of residence for the purposes of buying a firearm. Any alternate documentation MUST be government issued.
-that gun shop needs to start reading the instructions on the Form 4473.
The gun shop seems to be chock full of idiots. They aren't anywhere close to complying with ATF regulations on the lawful transfer of a firearm.
2ndsojourn
New member
^^^ dogtown, he obtained a government ID from the AZ DMV.
"was issued an AZ ID Card with my POB address on it."
"was issued an AZ ID Card with my POB address on it."
The form 4473 explicitly states that the provided address must be a "Current Residence Address" and that it can not be a POB.
https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf
The fact that a state has provided a person with an ID that has a POB address doesn't make it legal to use that address on the 4473. If you don't have a "Current Residence Address" that is not a POB address then you can't truthfully (i.e. legally) fill out a 4473.
From the 4473:
"I also understand that making any false oral or written statement, or exhibiting any false or misrepresented identification with respect to this transaction, is a crime punishable as a felony under Federal law..."
https://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf
The fact that a state has provided a person with an ID that has a POB address doesn't make it legal to use that address on the 4473. If you don't have a "Current Residence Address" that is not a POB address then you can't truthfully (i.e. legally) fill out a 4473.
From the 4473:
"I also understand that making any false oral or written statement, or exhibiting any false or misrepresented identification with respect to this transaction, is a crime punishable as a felony under Federal law..."
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