Epic NRA FAIL!!

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There is NO PLACE whatsoever for the NRA to promote one particular invisible-sky-friend myth, among the 10s of thousands of religions that have been made up and practiced by man throughout the last 5000 years (notably, the first 195,000 or so years that homo sapiens was on this planet, there were no such myths).

It simply has nothing to do with the RKBA whatsoever, and is highly offensive to agnostics and atheists. Would you be ok with her talking about the "Allah-less left"?

It's MISSION CREEP, and it does a lot more harm than good, particularly in the long run.
 
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There is NO PLACE whatsoever for the NRA to promote one particular sky daddy myth, among the 10s of thousands of religions that have been made up and practiced by man throughout the last 5000 years (notably, the first 195,000 or so years that homo sapiens was on this planet, there were no such myths).
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Why are you preaching to us about how wrong a particular belief is then? I don't recall stating that atheists were bad or somehow horrible people, nor anyone on this forum stating that. So why must you come on here and criticize other's beliefs instead of writing to the NRA and telling them yourself! There's no reason to criticize someone's beliefs or lack thereof, whether it is the NRA or you yourself ranting about it on here. Two wrongs don't make a right.
 
Don't you understand mission creep? It doesn't matter which side of this issue you're on, and it doesn't matter which side of ANY issue you're on, beyond the RKBA. Mission creep by an organization beyond its charter or stated mission ALWAYS alienates people, so the Christian NRA members should be 100% behind me on this, if they know what's good for them (since atheism is a very strong trend in the USA). The gun groups need to stick strictly to gun rights, and to a much smaller extent, arguably, hunting rights, so those are pretty closely aligned. Nothing else.

I'm not criticizing anyone's belief - I am responding to a spokesperson for a group of which I'm a life member, which spokesperson offended and alienated me and surely many other atheist fence-sitters. I am speaking out against the NRA promoting something which is the polar opposite of what I believe and think is important, and alienates a huge and growing group (atheists and agnostics). There is no reason under the sun to demonize a large group, like us non-theists, when it has nothing to do with gun rights.
 
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Wow. Just wow. :(

I'm kinda getting that IBTL feeling, but I have to quickly concur—IMHO the NRA has a growing problem with inappropriately aligning itself with the broader right-wing "conservative movement" rather than sticking to its guns, pun intended.

Conflating liberalism with opposition to organized religion is WAY outside of the NRA's proper mission. (And how is the PPACA even relevant to the topic at hand? 2:42 in the video.)
 
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... I have to quickly concur—IMHO the NRA has a growing problem with inappropriately aligning itself with the broader right-wing "conservative movement" rather than sticking to its guns, pun intended.

Conflating liberalism with opposition to organized religion is WAY outside of the NRA's proper mission. (And how is the PPACA even relevant to the topic at hand? 2:42 in the video.)
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Indeed, thank you. Ted Nugent the twice-convicted serial poacher, admitted draft dodger, and admitted pseudo-pedophile is another example of someone who must be purged from our ranks.


Why are you preaching to us about how wrong a particular belief is then?
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Although that is not my main point, the answer to your question, to the extent I was doing that, is because theists cannot seem to get it through their thick skulls that there are millions who don't believe like they do, including many gun owners and "liberals"... In fact, so much so, that we think it's utter silly nonsense.

It's a wake up call to demonstrate the upside-down calculus the NRA has, when they apparently concluded, in allowing this video, of: "more red-meat good than alienation cost". The red meat to theists is there, yes, but I'm trying to demonstrate to them that the harm done is much greater than NRA thinks, due to the great offense that we take to such statements.

The free market should and will decide which gun groups get the money and power - I'm just chiming in with my .02. Atheists' numbers are growing by leaps and bounds - I'm just trying to help the NRA. I could just as easily throw them under the bus, and support GOA, SAF, etc., ONLY, instead of all of them plus NRA as I do now. I'm a voting life member, but I will renounce it if they don't fire her - this has gone waaaay over the line. I encourage other agnostics and atheists to do the same.
 
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I am going to write the NRA and if they don't fire her, I'm renouncing my life membership. There is NO PLACE in the NRA for this kind of absurd mission creep.
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So, you will drop out of a civil rights organization because some of its members don't share your religion?

Does that seem wise or productive?

Although that is not my main point, the answer to your question, to the extent I was doing that, is because theists cannot seem to get it through their thick skulls that there are millions who don't believe like they do, including many gun owners and "liberals"... In fact, so much so, that we think it's utter silly nonsense. It's a wake up call. Atheists' numbers are growing by leaps and bounds - I'm just trying to help the NRA. I could just as easily throw them under the bus, and support GOA, SAF, etc., ONLY, instead of all of them plus NRA as I do now.
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Clearly you possess some very strong theological convictions and are at least partly motivated by a desire to spread them. That's your right, there seems to be no benefit to you in disassociating from the NRA.

The clip indicates sponsorship by Kimber. It might make more sense to boycott them.
 
I don't have a religion; that's the point. The NRA is the one who brought up the fairy tale stuff; not me.

No, it wouldn't be counterproductive. It would be very productive for NRA's competitors for RKBA donation dollars - GOA, SAF, JPFO, VCDL, on and on and on... if I and other atheist NRA members succesfullly convince other like-minded people to do the same. That's the goal. Drop the pushing-your-religion-on-the-rest-of-us crap, and stick to GUN RIGHTS.... or buh-byyyye [/D. Spade].
 
The NRA – of which I’m an Endowment member – seems sure that every gun owner is a country music fan and a Christian.
I am neither.
“Country music” is a contradiction in terms and I’ve been an Atheist since I read the Bible – all of it, not just the pretty parts - in the 2nd grade.
I find “godless left” a personal insult. I used to alternate my donations between NRA/ILA and the SAF. Now, I’ll just give to the SAF. They’re smart enough to refrain from insulting prospective donors.
 
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I don't have a religion; that's the point. The NRA is the one who brought up the fairy tale stuff; not me.
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You may believe that, but your writing shows very strong[ly expressed] theological beliefs. I have no interest in belittling your beliefs.

I would also have you notice that there is a disclaimer at the beginning of the video you posted. NRA may be involved in the forum on which you found the material without it being the NRA's message.

Hope that helps.

Japle said:
I find “godless left” a personal insult.
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I think it is possible that the phrase is invoked without you personally in mind. I do find that the people who hold the ideas it would most accurately describe, people who find Marxist materialism compelling and idealism unpersuasive, don't find the label generally offensive.
 
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...seems sure that every gun owner is a country music fan ...
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Everything I know about country music I learned from Blues Brothers. Rawhide -great tune.

Groups will come with a sort of cultural flavor; it isn't just the NRA.
 
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Maintaining our rights to keep and bear arms means that every gun owner has to put a lid on their petty little ego and step up to the civil rights plate.

So whether or not someone likes junk mail, references to deities or lack of them, left vs. right, whatever, stifle it. Your right to be offended by anything stops at the end of your nose. Your right to keep and bear arms stops the moment the NRA loses your membership. Without the NRA our rights will be gone in just one presidential term.
 
Without the NRA our rights will be gone in just one presidential term.
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Who fears the GOA or SAF? The answer isn't a substantive critique of either, but it does highlight the efficacy of the NRA.
 
And firing her for stating an opinion you don't agree with on the editorial page is the only acceptable solution? You don't see how dangerous this is?

I don't think you're who she was talking anyway. Godless? yeah. Leftist? probably not. "Godless leftist" (used to just be called a Commie), I really don't think so. So your rage seems disproportionate, like the college students screaming (literally; look up the Yale video) at professors for writing a letter they didn't agree with.

BTW, I get it that you were offended. You should ask for an apology.
 
The NRA published the video on their website. If they genuinely didn’t agree with it, they wouldn’t have used it.
If a Christian watched a video that equated Christians with abortion center bombers and Timothy McVeigh, would they feel insulted? Would they be inclined to donate to the organization that published the video?
Plenty of NRA members are non-believers. If the NRA wants to alienate those members, they’re going to have to deal with the consequences.
 
japle said:
The NRA published the video on their website. If they genuinely didn’t agree with it, they wouldn’t have used it.
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I don't think that follows, particularly given the contrary and explicit disclaimer.

japle said:
If a Christian watched a video that equated Christians with abortion center bombers and Timothy McVeigh, would they feel insulted?
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As happens in the midst of overheated political rhetoric routinely? They may not be personally insulted by the error of another writer, unless they labor under a belief that every topic is about them personally.

japle said:
Would they be inclined to donate to the organization that published the video?
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Not from people who lack foresight. The ACLU and Legal Aid Society both do some good and house a cultural milieu that can be odious and deeply bigoted. However, some things they do merit support.

If an individual decides that he will withdraw from support of worthy civil rights goals because he wasn't personally flattered enough, a re-assessment is in order.

japle said:
Plenty of NRA members are non-believers. If the NRA wants to alienate those members, they’re going to have to deal with the consequences.
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They all believe something, though the substance of their beliefs may differ. I don't think it follows that people who hold a theological position that there isn't a god are necessarily offended by expression of a contrary view. I know people of that belief, and they don't find the contrary conclusion offensive just because they don't share it.

As a political and financial matter, there is very little margin in an organization with broad support catering to the population who find religious references deeply offensive.
 
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Answer is simple, make a video, call it something catchy like "Rebuttal From The Godless Left", and get the NRA to air it. Maybe some of the folks offended will ignore the disclaimer and say that it reflects the NRA viewpoint, then, they can make a video ...:rolleyes:
 
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