Fire_Moose
New member
I found my entry level rifle and couldn't pass it up. 399 for a solid bolt action 308, just what I wanted. It shoots far better then I can and sure I should have got a 22 to learn rifle but some can't afford everything 
"Entry Level" bit of a rant.
- Thread starter Sweet Shooter
- Start date
I'm OK with the wording " entry level " . Although I have owned many guns in my life there was a long period I did no shooting and sold off most of my firearms ( very dumb ) . A little while back I started shooting again . It was like starting all over again . My first gun I bought this second time around was the same gun I bought as my very first gun ever a 10/22 . I then bought a hand gun then a shotgun then another hand gun . OK now I wanted a real rifle but which one ? There are so many and I new from experience that just because it looks good on paper does not mean it's the one for you .
I don't have a problem spending good money on anything but there is way to many different guns , calibers , contours , styles , finish , bla bla bla . I did not want to spend $800+ on a rifle I may not really need or want 6 months after buying it so I started looking at all the " entry level " rifles . I ended up buy the Ruger American and I love it . I have a cheap $60 scope on it and I can shoot sub MOA with it no problem . I did learn rather quickly that it is not the rifle I really want to shoot all the time . Now I have a rifle I don't really need but I also did not spend a lot of money on it either . The thing about that is if I would not have bought that cheap entry level rifle I would have bought almost the same type of rifle just with a higher price tag cus at the time I did not realize what type of shooting I wanted to do . Now I need to buy another rifle for the type of shooting I want to do so the result would have been the same but with less money to do it with . I have done just that and bought a new rifle , now have the exact rifle I want . With out buying and shooting that entry level rifle first I would not have known what I wanted and or what would work best for me and been out another $300 or so .
Although I had shot and owned many guns in my life I still needed that cheap entry level rifle for the very reason they are there for . For the guys that know they want to shoot but are smart enough not to drop 1k on something they really know nothing about . I love my American and I shoot it really well but my Savage puts it in it's place .
I guess my point is entry level does not need to mean the gun is junk . I here many people still saying how the Ruger A R is a cheap piece of junk . IMO cheap ? sure , but is it also accurate and reliable, oh heck yes . IMO junk ? no way no how . Is a BMW m3 a great care ? sure . That does not mean the Ford Focus is junk .
On a side note . I was a little concerned when I spent almost 3 time as much on my savage as I did on the Ruger . I was thinking I can shoot sub MOA with the Ruger. My best 3 shot group @ 300 yards with the Ruger was 2.5" spread . Is the savage going to shoot 3 times better ? Yep almost . My best 3 shot group with the savage @ 300 yards is 1.14"
I don't have a problem spending good money on anything but there is way to many different guns , calibers , contours , styles , finish , bla bla bla . I did not want to spend $800+ on a rifle I may not really need or want 6 months after buying it so I started looking at all the " entry level " rifles . I ended up buy the Ruger American and I love it . I have a cheap $60 scope on it and I can shoot sub MOA with it no problem . I did learn rather quickly that it is not the rifle I really want to shoot all the time . Now I have a rifle I don't really need but I also did not spend a lot of money on it either . The thing about that is if I would not have bought that cheap entry level rifle I would have bought almost the same type of rifle just with a higher price tag cus at the time I did not realize what type of shooting I wanted to do . Now I need to buy another rifle for the type of shooting I want to do so the result would have been the same but with less money to do it with . I have done just that and bought a new rifle , now have the exact rifle I want . With out buying and shooting that entry level rifle first I would not have known what I wanted and or what would work best for me and been out another $300 or so .
Although I had shot and owned many guns in my life I still needed that cheap entry level rifle for the very reason they are there for . For the guys that know they want to shoot but are smart enough not to drop 1k on something they really know nothing about . I love my American and I shoot it really well but my Savage puts it in it's place .
I guess my point is entry level does not need to mean the gun is junk . I here many people still saying how the Ruger A R is a cheap piece of junk . IMO cheap ? sure , but is it also accurate and reliable, oh heck yes . IMO junk ? no way no how . Is a BMW m3 a great care ? sure . That does not mean the Ford Focus is junk .
On a side note . I was a little concerned when I spent almost 3 time as much on my savage as I did on the Ruger . I was thinking I can shoot sub MOA with the Ruger. My best 3 shot group @ 300 yards with the Ruger was 2.5" spread . Is the savage going to shoot 3 times better ? Yep almost . My best 3 shot group with the savage @ 300 yards is 1.14"
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I look at entry level as more of a marketing phrase, but it makes sense when you have a very basic platform that is highly customizable, however in stock form is very standard issue. I would consider a very basic 1911 an entry level gun because there is room for improvement everywhere on that gun, even if it's not needed. Remy 700s in barebones stock form are consistently referred to as entry level hunting rifles. We know that you can certainly bed and pillar a $1200 stock for your action and install a detachable magazine, things which are definitely not entry level.
I don't sweat the phrase. As it turns out, almost anything considered entry level has been good enough for LE, military, and hunters for a long time and still used today. What might be considered entry level to one person could be all that will ever be needed for someone else.
I don't sweat the phrase. As it turns out, almost anything considered entry level has been good enough for LE, military, and hunters for a long time and still used today. What might be considered entry level to one person could be all that will ever be needed for someone else.
I consider most commercially made rifles chambered in standard cartridges (ie easy to find ammo for normally) under $800 centerfire and $400 rimfire for new rifles before optics to be entry level rifles. With the current capabilities of CNC mill and lathe technology, even cheap rifles should shoot as well as expensive ones as long as the person pulling the trigger is capable of accurately shooting it.
Entry level to me means it has everything I need to get the job done but probably not everything I want. Once you get above the $800 mark with most centerfire rifles you start getting semi-custom options like stock or coating upgrades. You should see as well a superior fit and finish of metal and stock fit almost to the level of a full custom rifle.
Entry level to me means it has everything I need to get the job done but probably not everything I want. Once you get above the $800 mark with most centerfire rifles you start getting semi-custom options like stock or coating upgrades. You should see as well a superior fit and finish of metal and stock fit almost to the level of a full custom rifle.
YARDDOG(1)
New member
My entry level deer rifle was a 30 30 94mdl,, Shot a many of deer with that rifle. Along with my 30 06 mdl 700BDL,, Just with them two guns I shot more deer than alot of people with all thier guns combind ; ) PS Gotta love them entry level guns
Y/D
Y/D
Certainly not.
These days, "entry level" rifles are often capable of the same accuracy as those costing twice as much or more...but if you get one that happens not to be so, you can't complain about it...
Today, I look at the term mostly as meaning "as-is", and either difficult/impossible to upgrade, or not worth doing it from a financial perspective.
I like the R700 and own one, but for me, I've found that I can scrounge up any Savage action, buy an aftermarket match barrel and stock- and make smaller bugholes for less money.
For my part, I've noticed that I spend a lot more time looking at and admiring my rifles, even while hunting, than I do shooting them.
As a machinist and gunsmith, I appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into a fine firearm.
It's the same thing with women... A drunken bagger will get the basic job done, but wouldn't you rather wind up with one that is pretty, stacked, smart, and has a sweet personality?
I own a Ruger American in .308 with a Bushnell Banner 3-9, which is butt-ugly but it's a backup weapon for my BLR, also in .308 which is quite comely with its Conetrol rings holding a Leupold 2-7 compact scope in gloss.
I have around 1500 bills tied up in the BLR, and about 400 bills total in the Ruger.
That's what makes the Ruger "entry level", it's a less expensive bagger that gets the basic job done just fine. - But I'd really rather go out with the BLR.
Wouldn't you?
Heh heh
As a machinist and gunsmith, I appreciate the craftsmanship that goes into a fine firearm.
It's the same thing with women... A drunken bagger will get the basic job done, but wouldn't you rather wind up with one that is pretty, stacked, smart, and has a sweet personality?
I own a Ruger American in .308 with a Bushnell Banner 3-9, which is butt-ugly but it's a backup weapon for my BLR, also in .308 which is quite comely with its Conetrol rings holding a Leupold 2-7 compact scope in gloss.
I have around 1500 bills tied up in the BLR, and about 400 bills total in the Ruger.
That's what makes the Ruger "entry level", it's a less expensive bagger that gets the basic job done just fine. - But I'd really rather go out with the BLR.
Wouldn't you?
Heh hehMy entry level gun was an $18 dollar .303 Enfield Jungle Carbine because the price was right. My next gun was a $28 22 caliber single shot bolt action 22 and I still have and shoot that one. My last gun bought 48 years later bought my number of 22's up to 13 so I guess I am still an entry level shooter. 
Dos centavos from a dinosaurs perspective, an entry level gun is what you learn to shoot on regardless of price or caliber. It just so happens that I believe a single action revolver or bolt action rifle in 22 caliber is ideal but not necessarily the only entry level gun.
Dos centavos from a dinosaurs perspective, an entry level gun is what you learn to shoot on regardless of price or caliber. It just so happens that I believe a single action revolver or bolt action rifle in 22 caliber is ideal but not necessarily the only entry level gun.
"Entry level" for me is the first firearm in any particular class I buy, so that I know I'll be doing enough shooting of a certain kind with it to justify something else better and more expensive down the road. First rimfire, first shotgun, first centrefire rifle, even the first reloading press counts. Invariably cheap and/or simple, even if I've got more than enough money to buy something better. (Okay, so I went with RCBS on the press, but it's entry level RCBS rather than some six-headed monstrosity that does everything except pull its own lever.)
stubbicatt
New member
WinchesterFirearms Museum tangent
To me the "entry level" firearm is as another contributor described it, "no frills."
One of the best days of my life was touring the Winchester Firearms Museum in Cody Wyoming.
There I saw the art of gunsmithing through the centuries. What Henry Ford did for the automobile, Winchester and others did for the firearm. Mass produced, to a specification, at a reasonable price. Typical of these sorts of firearms are the military firearms. One looks exactly like another, and the parts are readily interchangeable.
Some of the guns I saw there shattered my idea of beauty. The wood grain, the greying or case hardening of some metal parts, the strawing of others, the damascus steel, the intricate carvings, or checkering of the wood... Those were not entry level firearms. Magnificent pieces, really. That they shot buck or ball was a commonality, but the remainder?
So, today, to point at an example, a $3000 Cooper rifle is not an entry level firearm. It may shoot the same as a $500 Remington 700, but from there the quality and attention to details separate the two.
I think perhaps "entry level" is synonymous with "budget" or "utilitarian," rather than a comment leveled at the skill set of the shooter who buys one of them. Myself? I have a couple "entry level" firearms that I really enjoy shooting, a Ruger 10-22 being one of them.
To me the "entry level" firearm is as another contributor described it, "no frills."
One of the best days of my life was touring the Winchester Firearms Museum in Cody Wyoming.
There I saw the art of gunsmithing through the centuries. What Henry Ford did for the automobile, Winchester and others did for the firearm. Mass produced, to a specification, at a reasonable price. Typical of these sorts of firearms are the military firearms. One looks exactly like another, and the parts are readily interchangeable.
Some of the guns I saw there shattered my idea of beauty. The wood grain, the greying or case hardening of some metal parts, the strawing of others, the damascus steel, the intricate carvings, or checkering of the wood... Those were not entry level firearms. Magnificent pieces, really. That they shot buck or ball was a commonality, but the remainder?
So, today, to point at an example, a $3000 Cooper rifle is not an entry level firearm. It may shoot the same as a $500 Remington 700, but from there the quality and attention to details separate the two.
I think perhaps "entry level" is synonymous with "budget" or "utilitarian," rather than a comment leveled at the skill set of the shooter who buys one of them. Myself? I have a couple "entry level" firearms that I really enjoy shooting, a Ruger 10-22 being one of them.
reynolds357
New member
Sweet Shooter, all I can say is the only "entry level" rifle I own is a Ruger American. I bought it because of the rave reviews it received on here. When I was shooting it off the mechanical rest, I loved it. When I started shooting it in real world positions, it utterly amazed me how big a piece of crap the stock is. I really dont care to have a rifle that the stock is made of play dough on.
Truckn14269
New member
You can pay what you want for a more aesthetically pleasing rifle and still run the risk of being out shot by a Pawn shop special....
reynolds357
New member
There are exceptions to every rule. Sometimes you do run into a very accurate cheap rifle. Sometimes you run into an expensive dog. For the most part, you get what you pay for.
Personally, I think you should buy the rifle you will be happy forever. That is what I have always done and for my children.
Why buy something "entry level" with the thought that it will not be the long term hunting rifle? It is less expensive to get a nicer one and not keep trying to find one that suits your tastes.
Jerry
Why buy something "entry level" with the thought that it will not be the long term hunting rifle? It is less expensive to get a nicer one and not keep trying to find one that suits your tastes.
Jerry
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Seems to me that "entry level" has more to do with the size of one's billfold at the time of drooling and slobbering.
So the years go by, the billfold gets fatter and aesthetics take on added importance. Fit and finish and all that.
Since most rifles are plenty accurate for basic shooting and hunting, accuracy is not as critical as it once was in the selection process. Affordability is sort of a key, seems like.
So the years go by, the billfold gets fatter and aesthetics take on added importance. Fit and finish and all that.
Since most rifles are plenty accurate for basic shooting and hunting, accuracy is not as critical as it once was in the selection process. Affordability is sort of a key, seems like.
I think someone else said it right. "Entry level" is a sales marketing tool to get you to buy more, to move up, as it were.
But you don't need to. I have a $100 watch that will do anything my Rolexes did except attract thieves.
I have 2 $250 bikes that will go anywhere the Carbondales will, and at my speed, rather than Lance Armstrong's speed.
And the same is true of guns. You just need what you need and what you want and that's it.
I do have some top of the line items that are expensive, but that is only where that is what I want, at that price, in that category.
Otherwise cheap is just as good, by any name.
dc
But you don't need to. I have a $100 watch that will do anything my Rolexes did except attract thieves.
I have 2 $250 bikes that will go anywhere the Carbondales will, and at my speed, rather than Lance Armstrong's speed.
And the same is true of guns. You just need what you need and what you want and that's it.
I do have some top of the line items that are expensive, but that is only where that is what I want, at that price, in that category.
Otherwise cheap is just as good, by any name.
dc
Anybody remember the Rem Mod 788?
Remington came out with the model 788 as an "affordable" (read entry level) rifle for the sportsman. Round action, rear locking lugs, cheapo stock, clip fed, separate recoil lug. The only problem was, they out shot most of the 700's right out of the box!!! I'm pretty sure that's why Rem eventually quit making them. A plain, but neat little rifle that everyone including the shooting magazines raved over the accuracy!
...bug
Remington came out with the model 788 as an "affordable" (read entry level) rifle for the sportsman. Round action, rear locking lugs, cheapo stock, clip fed, separate recoil lug. The only problem was, they out shot most of the 700's right out of the box!!! I'm pretty sure that's why Rem eventually quit making them. A plain, but neat little rifle that everyone including the shooting magazines raved over the accuracy!
...bug