Encounter with a panhandler.....

Status
Not open for further replies.

Phred

New member
I recently had a routine encounter with an urban panhandler. Nothing happened, but I had an uneasy feeling afterward and realized that I had screwed up tactically in several ways. I'd welcome feedback from TFLers, even though some is likely to be critical.

It was about nine PM, and I was scanning the junk food offerings in a gas station/convenience store. I was carrying a Kahr .40 in a fannypack. This guy came out of the men's room behind me and mumbled some kind of greeting as he passed me, which I thought was odd. Then he went outside. When I got through paying, I left the store and started walking toward my car, which was parked alongside the building.

The guy who had walked out of the men's room was in front of me, walking toward the parked cars also. Then I noticed that he looked over his shoulder to see if I was following -- the impression that came to mind was that he was "following me from in front".

As I approached my car, this guy comes up to me and says "I come in peace, what's your name?"

In hindsight, my first mistake was in allowing him to get too close. This guy might have been streetwise enough to guess what was in the pack, and I was too close and in the wrong stance to react properly if he had grabbed for the "ripcord". He then starts his speech--"I'm not asking like I'm weak, or like you're weak, but I wonder if you could help me out...." This intro gives me the creeps. Then he claims that the car parked next to mine is his, and needs transmission fluid.

I did what most people do in this situation -- decided to buy some peace and quiet for a dollar or two. (This probably was mistake number 2.) I took out my wallet (mistake number 3), thinking I had a couple ones. Obviously, if he had been more aggressive it would have been entirely too easy for him to snatch my wallet. He might have chosen not to due to my size (5'11, 225) or the fannypack.

Anyway, no ones, so I gave him about $1 in pocket change, and got in the car while he was bitching about my lack of generosity.

In hindsight I feel uneasy for several reasons. I did not listen to my gut nearly enough about the way he was clearly positioning himself to "meet me" near the parked cars. I could have ended up looking down the barrel of a pistol instead of listening to his BS about transmission fluid. Many self-defense trainers suggest never letting a suspicious person get within 25 feet, and like many TFL'ers I have seen Ayoob's training video of the guys with the rubber knife closing 21 feet in 2 seconds. I should have either stopped in my tracks when I saw that I was being "headed off", or moved to get the cars between us.

In addition, I regret having given him money. I hate panhandling, but all too often I continue to subsidize it by giving money. Why do I do it? To buy the approval of some wino or crackhead?

Last but not least, I had a bad feeling about the guy. He was a big and fairly hard-looking guy, and I wonder if he would have done his "I come in peace" rap if I had been female or 75 years old. I should have called 911 and reported suspicious behavior. He may just have been wanted for something.

I just wanted to throw this out for other people to comment on or learn from.
 
Phred, that is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. You should NEVER eat food from a gas station!
Seriously, it sounds as though you already know the mistakes you made. Just be sure to be more cautious in the future and follow your instincts.
And for what it is worth I to give money to panhandlers ocassionally.

------------------
Gunslinger
 
The second he opened his mouth to bitch about " my lack of generosity " he would have been sucking on a .40 Cal. lollypop . I woulda took the money back and explained to him in no uncertain terms how he epitomizes the term " dubious parentage ."
I know the next line from some people " He will call the cops and say you robbed him at gunpoint " . No , officer . I gave him a dollar from my fanny pack and he noticed my legal gun . Anyway , I don't think it would go that far . If I was in need and you gave me a nickel I would be grateful . I won't wash your windows but I would thank you . If , on the other hand the guy was polite and thanked me I ( now this is just me ) I would probably have bought him a jug of tranny fluid and went home .


------------------
TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA
 
Phred,

IMHO you overreacted to this guy, however strange he might have been. I guess that's easy for me to say because I wasn't in your shoes. Someone saying hi to you coming out from the bathroom isn't all that strange down here in the South. People are just naturally friendly here. If you are up in New York City, you can probably disregard all that I have said so far.

I just don't think that you can draw down on everyone who comes within some invisible 25 foot ring of safety if you don't like their looks. I try not to give panhandlers money either unless I sense that they really have a legitimate need for help. It is a tough call sometime. :)

Joe
 
Is there a full moon out tonight? I also had a weird experience at the gas station this evening. Since you've studied Mas's teachings, I'm surprized that you didn't have a couple of dollars wrapped around a match book. Mas recommends tossing it to him so that you don't have to reach for your wallet. Some may flame Mas for not being "manly" and giving a panhandler a few dollars but better to be out several dollars than become involved in a shooting where, even if you did everything right, it might cost you thousands & thousands in legal fees. Something to think about. Regards,
FUD
fudsmile.gif


[This message has been edited by FUD (edited July 01, 2000).]
 
As a rule I try to avoid panhandlers in my city. I hate the fact that most just refuse to work and would rather live out of the pockets of other people. And you never know if your gonna get jacked.

One law recently passed in my city is that if you wanna be a panhandler it is ok. So long as you get a $30 panhandling liscense!!!! :D

------------------
Try to take away my gun...and you will see my 2nd Amendment Right in ACTION!!! -Me
 
Congratulations, Paratrooper. You win a one-way trip to jail for assault with a deadly weapon.

That wouldn't be the best move in the world...

------------------
Beware the man with the S&W .357 Mag.
Chances are he knows how to use it.
 
Phred, this happens to me occassionaly. I usually go bac into the store and buy the person a hot dog and carton of milk. I never give money. I will also give them a salvation tract and try to lead them to the Lord. This sometimes has the effect of making the person avoid me like the plague in any future encounters. I feel sure that if the subject would ever get violent (physically) I would have the advantage either armed or unarmed.
Arrell
 
"I come in peace, what's your name?"
"I come in war, flee while you can."

That come-on line it too wierd for anyone to use for any purpose other than panhandling. And no panhandler has ever demonstrated real need to me. I usually end up "playing" with them (under safe conditions), pressing for details until they just go away.

I occasionally use a fanny pack holster too; something like that happens and my hand would be placed at the rip point.

Whenever they mention "my car broke down" I demand to see the car and have them open it, wherever it is. When they finally admit defeat, I toss a dirty look and leave.

Don't buy peace when you don't have to. Ayoob does recommend the "weighted wad" to toss to incoming thugs; he focuses on using it in a genuinely bad-and-getting worse situation. Handing over the buck wasn't "bad" as it did work; you did, I don't, choices.

Taking out your wallet: bad idea. I'm slightly surprised you still have it.

When being followed, don't go to your vehicle (unless it's really your only option): you may not get in in time. Remote door locks help you get in faster if needed.

Upon my first visit to NYC, my first lesson was that the word "hello" means "give me money".
 
Phred - you live and learn. Many of us would have repeated the same mistakes you made. I know I have in the past (but not the wallet show).

Uh, Paratrooper, you really got me concerned with "he would have been sucking on a .40 Cal. lollypop". That is just the kind of response the antis drool for (and don't think they're not out there lurking). Would you really have drawn down on this guy because he wasn't grateful???


[This message has been edited by Cobra 4-6 (edited July 01, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cobra 4-6:
Phred
Uh, Paratrooper, you really got me concerned with "he would have been sucking on a .40 Cal. lollypop". That is just the kind of response the antis drool for (and don't think they're not out there lurking). Would you really have drawn down on this guy because he wasn't grateful???
[This message has been edited by Cobra 4-6 (edited July 01, 2000).]
[/quote]

Of course not but it was a splendid thought . It's amazing how a person can look that bad , have a car and not enough money to buy tranny fluid . I don't buy the story the guy gave . Actually if it was me I probably would have qualified the whole deal in one second . I would offer to go in and buy the fluid . If the guy goes for it he gets it and goes home . If he balks then he just wants the money so he gets nothing . If you give him the fluid and he wants the receipt also then he wants to return it when you are out of sight . In that case you just keep the fluid and use it yourself .
As far as a one way trip to jail ....no way . It never happened . The only way he could make anything happen is to hold me for the police .Think not . I could be found but nothing proven . Think about it . He has nothing to gain and no witness . Besides it's a scenario that I , as a native New Yorker , would have "seen coming" . Like the other post said , return to the store for something else . Then you follow someone else out . If he's a mooch he will hit on the first person .
On the other hand the poster could just walked past and ignored him . If he was further accosted ( touching , grabbing etc. ) the .40 cal. "lollypop" is justified . Besides , I don't even carry . I don't need it . I carried as a truck driver but only in truck stops at night . Daytime I felt safer . I didn't carry a wallet and had a few bucks ready just in case . But that's just me .



------------------
TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA
 
I got panhandled in my front yard night before last, as I was moving in. Welcome to the neighborhood, huh.

Tonight, there was gunfire, then ambulances, right outside as I was coming home.

No wonder HUD let me have the place so cheap!

Be it ever so humble, yadda yadda yadda...

------------------
*quack*
 
Live and learn Phred! I don't ever give to panhandlers anymore, it's too risky.

I had a similar experience almost a year ago. I had come out of a store and was at my car putting in my newborn's infant seat when this trashy looking guy approaches my car. He just came out of no-where! I immediately went to "red-alert" when he made eye contact with me.

Well, he gets about 15 ft away and asks if I can give him money, or help him. I kept the open car door between him and myself and said that no, I didn't have any money. I was really wishing at this point that my CHL had come in the mail! I mean I was wound up like a clock spring, I was so scared. He started to come closer and asked for $$ again. I jumped in the car and locked the door immediately, then scooted over to the driver's side.

I might have over-reacted, but I was alone, w/ two very young children and unarmed. It really scared me to think what could have happened to me and/or my girls. I was a sitting duck w/o any protection.

------------------
---------------------------
"Pray as if your life depends on God, Prepare as if it all depends on you..." -Texas Preacher

Liberty or death, what we so proudly hail... DON'T TREAD ON ME!!-Metallica

"Many's the men who've battled foe
many the number slain,
many the lads have fallen though
Scotland shall rise again."


Behind the walls of thoughts there lyes, Something timeless something wise. Within us all the prize of our past; From father to son, from the first to the last. And so full circle the image reappears; to this second son born, the hazy mist clears. An echo swamped in youthful rage, revealed once more with the coming of age. So forget ye not the departed ones, for the souls they live on, in the blood of the sons..."-Steve McDonald

[This message has been edited by Darthmaum (edited July 02, 2000).]
 
My usual encounters with panhandlers (people asking for money, not people from Amarillo) are in busy areas with lots of pedestrian traffic so being assaulted is unlikely. The one time I was approached at a gas station while fueling I had pepper spray in my off hand and challanged the person when he came around the front of my car. Stopped him in his tracks. Warned him I do not know him, I have nothing to say to him, go away. He left. Had he advanced further I would spray him and call 911.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Phred:
I recently had a routine encounter with an urban panhandler.
As I approached my car, this guy comes up to me and says "I come in peace, what's your name?" He then starts his speech--"I'm not asking like I'm weak, or like you're weak, but I wonder if you could help me out...." This intro gives me the creeps. Then he claims that the car parked next to mine is his, and needs transmission fluid.
I did what most people do in this situation -- decided to buy some peace and quiet for a dollar or two.
[/quote]

Well one line I have been tempted to use on Panhandlers is "Greetings Earthling."

On a more serious note, if someone is having car trouble they usually have hood open. I know a (very) little about cars. And have helped people a few times with minor problems.

I know enough I can tell if they are BSing about car problems...plus I can always say well pop your hood while I grab my tools [in my trunk]. I don't yet have a trunk gun...but all kinds of things one can do with a good hammer or screw driver or spray paint, etc. So you can have a "weapon" in hand. Since they asked for help they can't really claim you grabbed a tool to threaten them now can they?
Not to mention I have brake & tranny fluid in my trunk. Not to mention oil and coolant.
I NEVER give money to strangers. In this state at least I know if they need food or shelter it is easy enough to get for free. I have done some social work and have family member that works for Salvation Army.
 
In downtown Atlanta, I get hit up for money daily. There's at least a half dozen "regulars" along the four blocks I walk to lunch.

The other day, though, I had a first-time experience. I was sitting in the food court of a little downtown "mall", reading my newspaper and eating, and a guy sits down in the other chair at my little table.

He starts up with a spiel about how he's not looking for money.., that he's not homeless, he's just new in town and wants to talk to someone. And he keeps talking, and talking, and talking..., 15 minutes, before he finally gets around to telling me he's in a homeless shelter and they require their "members" to come up with money to feed themselves.

By this time, I just want him to leave so I can finish my paper, so I give him a couple bucks..., but I regret it. He was relatively young, and healthy, and perfectly capable of working to support himself.
 
Kirk - I think that's the new "line" in Atlanta. It sounds like you were at the Peachtree Center food court. I got hit with the same line, only quicker, by a guy on the platform at the Peachtree Center MARTA station while waiting for the train.

Fortunately, they tend to keep those guys cleared out of Peachtree Center, so I don't have to deal with it much.
 
We don't life in the city.
This is a good learning experience for me.
We go to Las Vegas or reno a couple of times a year. Usually not a problem.
Once we we're getting off of the freeway and on the off ramp there was a guy with a sign.
Mooching money.My wife said give him some money. What! are you crazy?
Anyway, she's a kind loving lady and I gave the guy $10.
She felt good about it and I felt better too.

Be safe, MDS
 
Phred; Situations that arise may be very different the next time. :eek: Just suppose
your car had run out of gas, near a lonely
and dark intersection of an urban neighborhood. And while you are out of your
vechile trying to rectify the problem; this
same panhandler appear's? :) He may very well
have his mind set to committ the cowardly
act of robbery in the 1st degree! :D Bottom
line here is to "Never,ever put yourself
in a comprimising situation!!! Pay attention
to detail; particulary your surrounding's.
Another publication well worth reading
and heeding the advice of is: The Tactical
Pistol by Gaberial Suarez of The Halo Group.
Every gun owner that carries a CCW needs to
have a copy on his/her bookshelf.

Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top