Encounter with a gunman last night (long post)

Ya' done good. :)

Evasive driving is just that, and often done in reverse when the "threat" is in front of you. Given the situation, it seems you did the best thing you could, which is to put distance between you and a potential threat. I will not, nor should I or anybody else fault your driving technique, IMHO.

Very good move, IMO, in calling the on-duty constabulary and not involving yourself in this situation when the person pulled his gun from it's holster. You do not know who he was. It could have been a fellow CCW Permit holder, off duty/plainclothes LEO, gangbanger, dad of a teenage mutant ninja, Lady Godiva in drag. The point is, you don't know, and it's not your place to try and identify him beyond what you did by describing him to the 911 Operator.

Off Duty I would have done no more than you did. We hear gunshots all the time in my neighborhood, and it's a "good" neighborhood for the area. I can't wait to get a transfer and move out in the "sticks" again.

Biker
 
PhilA said:
...what if what you did was end up calling in a "man with a gun" scenario on one of your fellow forum members who was also in condition orange and who decided at that moment to give himself a tactical advantage by moving his pistol from his OWB to his jacket pocket?
Click to expand...
So what if that is what happened? He didn't do any damage. I don't see a problem.
 
Jfrey123 said:
...I notice a white male in a leather jacket walking in our direction (Eastbound) on the opposite side of the street. This male steps off the sidewalk and begins approaching my driver's window, making a fairly polite motion to roll down my window and indicating he wants to talk. POSSIBLY, a mistake on my part, but I comply and crack the window approx 3 inches. He asks me if I've heard any gun shots. I respond that I heard some sort of popping, that I'm not entirely sure if it was gunshots (could've been firecrackers for all I know). He indicated where he thought they had come from, and I responded that I thought they might have come from a different direction, in my opinion. He stands there for a second, not sure if he was trying to continue the conversation, but ends up saying thanks and walking away from my car. ...
Click to expand...

You've omitted some pertinent information here. Age, height, weight to start with. Leather jacket, but what kind of pants? Jeans, business casual, saggy baggies?

I don't think I would have been all that alarmed by the individual you encountered. You were apprehensive, yet not alarmed enough almost immediately after hearing gunshots to unholster your own weapon or even put your hand on it. Why? Perhaps your subconcious recognized he was unlikely to be the shooter or a serious threat to you.

Another "touchstone" for me is that you saw him carrying his pistol OWB in a holster. The large majority of criminals don't use a holster and of those that do, a cheap clip-on IWB is preferred. This way, if pursued, they can ditch the gun (or gun & holster) fairly fast and have no obvious weapon when stopped. OWB belt holsters are uncommon for most criminals but very common for PD and CCW.

Given the conversation, my guess is that he was possibly a local resident who heard the shots from inside and came out to investigate.

His unholstering as he walked away may not have been unwarranted. You were inside a running automobile and may not have heard footsteps or voices down the block, seen some sort of movement down the block, etc. It could also have just been a stupid move on his part.

Tactics:
a. You heard "pops" in the distance.
.22? Firecrackers? 9mm? How far? A few hundred yards? 3 or 4 blocks? It appears to me that you were unsure that it was gunfire and/or unconcerned since you did not call it in to 911.

b. The noise didn't especially alert you of immediate or impending danger.
Despite your wonky color-code description, you didn't perceive any threat near you. You remained alert in condition yellow with no identifiable threat.

c. When the stranger approached you didn't make any special preparations. i.e. you did not perceive a threat.
You just heard gunshots nearby and out of the darkness a few moments later a stranger approaches you. Yet this isn't enough of a threat to make you even put your hand near your weapon (cond. orange). I would theorize that the stranger was well over 30-35 years old then. Or his dress and demeanor suggested Joe-Average checking out the same noises.

d. Only after spotting his weapon did you reverse out of the situation. and call for PD.
Good move, though perhaps unnecessary or somewhat overplayed based on your description of the 911 call. For such a call, it might have been more appropriate to report possible gunshots a block or three away to the NW or whatever, then advising the dispatcher that there is a WMA in a black jacket armed with a stainless pistol seen in the xx-hundred block who appears to be looking for the source of the gunshots.

Rating: Fair. Balance what you know with your alert status and potential threat level. The stranger didn't seem to be a threat and you didn't react to him as such. By your report, his demeanor was polite and he only sought information. Only when you saw him unholster did you reverse away from him. But the 911 call makes it sound like you did feel threatened at the sight of him carrying. Nor does it sound like you informed 911 dispatch of all the facts about the contact. I'm sure he spend a few minutes face down in the snow when officers responded.
 
Response to BillCA (cause I like it when Bill engages me on topics, honestly no sarcasm :cool: )


The things you believe I omitted were only done so to stop a long post from going longer. The man was approx 25 years old, longer blonde hair. Thin build, not muscular at all (IMHO, too scrawny to be a cop). Light color jeans with at least one tear, black shirt under said leather jacket. This information was included in my 911 call, verified by all 4 other occupants of the vehicle while I was on hold. (Yes, 911 here puts you on hold)


For the gunshots preceding this event: They caused me to fully stop at the gate I was exiting. I heard them very faintly, and if I had to guess they were an "acceptable" caliber at a great distance from a handgun. Nothing super small and wimpy. I scanned up and down the street for maybe 20 seconds, long enough for the 2 friends with me at the time to ask me what was wrong and long enough for me to assess that the shots were not in my vicinity. I heard no speeding vehicles, no screams, no retort of fire, no fighting or yelling, nada. The 2 friends following me at that moment claimed to have not heard the shots (other two were still inside, about to follow us out in case you're wondering where they were.) At this point, the Leather Jacket man was not on my radar, presumptively not out of his home yet or too far up the street for me to see a black jacket at night through parked cars. I did not call the police for the gunshots because I could not and cannot still confirm they were gunshots vs loud firecrackers NOR could I provide any useful information. "Hi, 911? I think I might've heard gunshots, somewhere over there that's not by me."

The OWB holster was a touchtone for me as well. After calling, I am coming to believe I may have called on a CCW holder. If so, I feel bad, but I still stand by that I believe it needed to be done. Hell, if I'm anywhere that required me drawing a firearm from a holster, I sure hope someone is calling the cops cause I might need the cavalry! Regardless, this man was brandishing a firearm in a situation that I had dismissed as "distant gun shots" and, to the best of my knowledge, brandishing a firearm is still illegal in the state of Nevada.


To Tactics:

A: Answered above, it was either large firecrackers or an "acceptable" carry caliber of pistol (9mm or above, non magnum) but not likely a HP rifle or a .22.

B: True statement, I hadn't figured the threat was close based on volume, distance and direction of the possibly shooter. If this man had been walking down the street, he was a great distance from me when I stopped at the gate and scanned, because he didn't pop out to me. The street appeared to be empty. Now, it took approx 2 min for the car to get loaded. Myself and the 2 friends had items we packed in the cargo hold, and the other two friends from inside took a min or so to come out and load up. My guess, is the person came from inside the apartment complex across the street, about one house up from my GF's. The border fence there is chain link and has slats inside the link to prevent one from seeing inside, and he had approached from that general direction.

C: Again omitted facts have been caught by Bill, and they're only omitted form the original story to keep it somewhat long vs super long. I made eye contact with this man as he rounded a parked vehicle, opposite side of the street, and he was approaching my window. He motioned that he wanted to talk, as I had already gotten ready to drive, and I had nodded to acknowledge his motion. My preparations were as follows: left hand rolled down the driver's window 2", enough to talk but not enough for him to grab or threaten with a knife. My right hand pushed the vehicle into 1st gear, my feet were on the clutch and brake but ready to launch the vehicle forward and away if needed, and after shifting my hand went under the coat, under the shirt and onto my sidearm at 3 o'clock IWB. Not an ideal draw situation for me, but I was more leaning toward an escape since I'm in a car and he's on foot. All this was easy to do, and was done before he fully closed the distance to my SUV.

D: I'll keep that in mind. Honestly, at the time, I felt the guy might be setting me for a robbery or carjacking. Having just heard gun shots, suddenly a guy is approaching my driver's side window, that has NEVER happened on this street and I believe her street to be in a bad neighborhood. I believe drugs are being sold regularly from that apartment with the fence, right near my GF's house. I had thought maybe keeping my window mostly up or something else had foiled his plan to take my car or life. Regardless, the gunshots combining with a sudden 'man from nowhere' had me all over the radar/awareness whatever. When he brandished the weapon, that was enough to make me panic a bit, and I'm not necessarily afraid to admit it.



Again, I posted here so they guys can help me decide how to handle these situations in the future. The gun didn't scare me. I noticed the gun on his hip as he walked away and I was about to shrug it off. It was the action of him unholstering his weapon, brandishing per Nevada Revised Statute, that made me go bezerk so to speak. In my own hindsight and reflections, I can accept that I might have over reacted. I personally don't make it a point to investigate possibly gunshots at a long distance, and if I did I wouldn't be doing it at a low ready (and for the record, I never saw the Jacket Man go to low ready, only out in his hand). However, if presented with this situation again, I can't say I won't call again... I don't think it's in the best interest of the public to have a man walking down the street with a gun in hand to play investigator/vigilante. What if someone else, hearing shots, comes out of their house with a shotty and see's this Jacket Man with a gun in hand? Two innocents shooting it out over mistaken identity is exactly why CCW persons do not have LEO authority.

Further comments by any are appreciated. And again, and honest thanks to BillCA for the study/follow up.
 
I very rarely go to low ready when walking with gun out in public. I usually have it in strong hand pointed down. As threat perception goes up I will switch to a two handed low ready carry.

Again I want the OP to know he done good and not to monday morning Qback himself excessively
 
Depending on where you live, maybe the neighbors do investigate possible gunshots? When I hear things go bump in the night (albeit not gunshots) I will do a sweep of the area with a shotgun and pistol. Granted I now live in a part of Anchorage that has bears and coyotes all over the place, as well as the young overprivileged punks who think the dead end street I live on is a prime spot for them to come hang out, drink, get stoned, vandalize, etc.

When my roommate is in town he usually covers the high ground from the deck. :D

In the past when I lived in more, I don't know if this is a word, but for lack of a better one, crime-ier neighborhoods, it is common to hear shots fired. Usually I'd just count the shots, and then count the seconds until sirens began. Unless the shots were in the immediate vicinity (within one block) I'd never call 911.
 
When my roommate is in town he usually covers the high ground from the deck.
Click to expand...

The thought of you in your ninjammies doing a sweep with Hans covering you from the deck in a thong is enough to make grown criminals weep :)

WildscaryAlaska ™
 
Good move my friend. Ive been a member here since yesterday though, Im from the Philippines, been a lifer with the Phil. Marines for 24 years, and experience told me, (dont know with your state laws and all though) but if Iam in your shoes ill do the same for the following reasons:

> you dont know if the guy was a cop or not. (lots of incidents here in the phil where a civilian got shoot up when he mingles with a legit police/military operation.

> besides, let the cops handle it, best way to do is to call their office (911 is it? here in the phil its 166.

anyways, nice move (about that tactical mindset yellow, white and all) your not with the military are you? Ive known cops and private gun owners who packs guns but does not even know what in heavens name the color code for a tactical mindset mind you.


MERRY XTMAS, AND ANDVANCE HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL.
 
ninjamies/Thong

Holy smokes Wild. I think I'll have nightmaes tonight. Not about gunman but about Ninjamies and Hans in a thong. That is a sight picture I could have gone without. : )

As far as the original poster is concerned I think you did the correct thing. I wonder what I would have done when the Black Jacket man approached my vehicle. I'm thinking I would have left (if possible). But I wasn't there to see and evaluate what you saw and perceived. So no criticism from here.
 
jfrey,

Your response seems to indicate you had your stuff together and took the appropriate actions. Mentally, I'd pictured someone older ... 30's to 50's... checking things out. Different ah...socioeconomic class let us say.

If your gut instinct says someone may be approaching with ill intent, I say listen to it and act appropriately (caution, ready to escape/engage, etc.) In that sense, hand on your firearm was a good call. With more facts, your actions don't seem to be quite as uneven.

I may be up visiting friends in Reno in a couple of weeks. Perhaps we can get together if your schedule permits. PM me if interested.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top