Embrace The Truth - Catastrophic Gun Failure

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The gun did explode. The stock is part of the overall gun. I didn't say the chamber exploded. The gun failed and is multiple pieces. In general common language parlance, if this occurred to YOU at a gun range, you'd say, "My gun exploded when I pulled the trigger." Let's not get too technical ...

@Cheapshooter
It would be a sad world to live in if we worried about the monetary settlement in case of a lawsuit in every enjoyable thing we did.
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I have a pretty high level of confidence that you, or anyone else here, if you were seriously injured by a product defect (your craftsman saw blade come off and cuts off your arm; your Ford car gear shifter fails and cause you to run over your daughter in the driveway; your doctor operates on you and amputates your foot instead of doing some routine surgery; your landscaper drops a tree on your house instead of pruning it, etc.) would sue.

So yes, it's natural to factor in who will be liable in decisions. Little different than getting repair warranties on major purchases (as a form of financial liability). Maybe you don't but I certainly do. So I don't let yahoos work on my car brakes, I don't buy other people's reloaded ammo, etc.
 
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The gun did explode. The stock is part of the overall gun. I didn't say the chamber exploded. The gun failed and is multiple pieces. In general common language parlance, if this occurred to YOU at a gun range, you'd say, "My gun exploded when I pulled the trigger." Let's not get too technical .
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Let's not pretend a broken stock is the same as "the gun exploded"
The stock could have been what caused the problem in the first place

If it's a "major design flaw" and the suit has been going on for years, where are all the other "exploded" Encores?

Truth without hype isn't "too technical"
 
I don't know anything about anything on this matter, all I know is the comments given by the OP are complete nonsense and won't give us any facts on anything.....so I can only assume he is trying to hide some actual truth. it wouldn't be hard to sit down and write a paragraph on the load data, his procedures and what exactly happened to the rifle. when someone says "my handloaded ammo was 100% not at fault", you have to wonder if he didn't get brain damage with his blind eye. if he would like to man up and provide us a little detail, maybe I would think different, but his dodgy responses are not convincing.
 
leadcounsel said:
The gun did explode. The stock is part of the overall gun. I didn't say the chamber exploded. The gun failed and is multiple pieces. In general common language parlance, if this occurred to YOU at a gun range, you'd say, "My gun exploded when I pulled the trigger." Let's not get too technical ...
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I don't want to detract from the OP's pain and suffering from an accident involving a firearm. However, excessive head space doesn't break stocks and head space is what the case was based upon. The OP had a very convincing lawyer if he got the jury to believe excessive head space caused his injuries, that and most jurors are firearms stupid. I see a catastrophic failure of a rifle stock, but I don't see a failure caused by any excessive head space issues.

Brian Ward said:
To summarize and very very briefly in my opinion the big take away from my case was the TCA Encore can not keep tolerances and head space grows overtime, especially with larger calibers like I was shooting (300 win mag).

In my trial we had 3 guns with excessive head space.

My gun was out of spec.
A gun with 5 shots was out of spec.
A gun with no shots was out of spec.
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If the rifle stock broke under recoil it may have been caused by a "hot" load or several. There had to be a crack, defect in the stock, or material fatigue caused by repeated use of "hot" loads. Excessive head space would have caused a different failure of the rifle action. There are no burns from gas leakage on the frame from a pierced primer or case head separation visible in the picture posted. The OP had a very convincing lawyer if he got the jury to believe excessive head space caused his injuries, that and most jurors are firearms stupid.

Copied from THR since everyone may not have a membership there.

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I have a pretty high level of confidence that you, or anyone else here, if you were seriously injured by a product defect (your craftsman saw blade come off and cuts off your arm; your Ford car gear shifter fails and cause you to run over your daughter in the driveway; your doctor operates on you and amputates your foot instead of doing some routine surgery; your landscaper drops a tree on your house instead of pruning it, etc.) would sue.
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Again, you missed my point entirely. I don't live my live by restraints dictated by the possibility of things that might happen. And I don't refrain from doing things I find enjoyable, like reloading, because in the very unlikely chance that something might go wrong I may not be able to get as much money out of the situation.

By every common definition of "exploding" in terms of a firearm, this gun did NOT explode! The stock broke into two pieces.
Again, a total lack of information by the OP. Was it loose as someone else had mentioned. Had it been damaged in some other way previously? Where is the spent case that supposedly caused the stock to break? Was the case head separated? Was the primer blown out? What exact "in spec" maximum hand load was used?
 
-----Case rupture-----

It’s one of the mysteries of this case. The gun found by my friend did not have a case in it. I have no idea where it went, I was laying there bleeding.

I never had any cases rupture, split, blown primers, etc…on any of my loads, or factory loads. All my reloads and brass from reloads was inspected by experts on the defenses side. No one could point to specific excessive pressure sign….only conjecture.

Please look at my original post. In my opinion, when this gun develops a large headspace tolerance issue, this gun can open during firing and thus cause and stock to snap like it did to me; the company rep. admitted the gun opens up like this in court.

On a separate note you all have probably saw I stared warning threads everywhere I could think of. The number so stories coming in of similar failures is disturbing!
 
I'm a Contender collector... & as yet don't own an Encore... both guns do have their little quirks... I'm also a very prolific reloader... to assume reloads are a problem, is a problem in it's self... I personally trust my reloads more than I trust factory loads ( I certainly have more checks when assembling each cartridge than the factory does )... I also know, & have witnessed 1st hand ( cracked a cylinder on a brand new revolver using someone else's reloads ) that some people should not reload... one of my buddys ( didn't load the loads above ) can't break himself free of the TV set & often watches TV while reloading, & has a very high incidence of poor ammo... but so far has not broken a gun or injured himself, so he continues to reload ( I won't shoot his reloads though ) :o

as far as the % at fault... sometimes that can be misleading at best... I was in a car accident, years ago, that outwardly the other driver was 100% at fault, but in court I was 25% at fault for owning a car & having it on the road... so at 40% I don't think the shooter was actually "dinged" that much for his reloads...

I've also 1st hand witnessed guns with excessive head space... I have a S&W ( same parent company ) S&W 610 that I purchased new, with the intent of using it for a custom build... it was my builder that noticed the gun had excessive headspace... I contacted S&W & was told the gun was unsafe to shoot, & they issued a recall tag... when I got it back, the service department did nothing to correct the headspace... a 2nd recall tag was issued... same thing on the return... I had to finally contact the area sales rep & I forget now weather it was the 3rd , or 4th time back, before someone in the service department actually addressed the "unsafe to shoot" condition on my yet unfired new S&W revolver... I would have never known I had an unsafe headspace as a common user... the gun smith was the only way I found out... the gun is now one of my favorites, but at the cost of close to $1,000.00 one would think someone at the factory could have caught that defect, & that I wouldn't have to wait 6 months to finally "safely" use what I spent the $1,000.00 on... so I can believe that there headspace issues on these guns...

I'm about the least sue happy guy around, but I blame the issue I had on the "bean counters" ... one would think that if enough money is spent on settlements, that someone in corporate would realize that QC is cheaper than court... & while I personally doubt the headspace was to blame for the stock cracking... if it wasn't so easy to find guns with "unsafe" headspace, then that would not have been either the reason, or an excuse for the stock breaking :)
 
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"One would think that someone at the factory could have caught that defect". Why? It is an assembly factory. They have methheads like everyone else. I saw a brand new Remington my buddy (FFL License) ordered for someone and it had the caliber marked on the barrel correctly, it was just the wrong barrel. Someone brought me a new Ruger ultralite that he could not fully load the magazine. There was a vibrating stone jammed between the follower and spring. If I had not had a machining background, I would never had known what it was.
I was at the range one day and two young guys came over with a new Savage rifle. They wanted advice. Apparently after firing, it was hard to open the bolt. The primers were backing out. On about the third round, the primer was gone. Unbelievably, they fired it again! This time it blew the floorplate out and there was no case at all left, just brass grit. The barrel was tight, and they were using the right shells (According to the barrel markings). The empty cases appeared to be formed to the correct caliber (By eye, anyway).

If the injured guy posting was a reloader, you would think he would have seen problems developing. I don't know, when I was still working on guns it always amazed me that people had a problem and just kept shooting.
 
It’s one of the mysteries of this case. The gun found by my friend did not have a case in it. I have no idea where it went
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Or did the trigger guard leave somehow get pressed when the stock broke from repeated "maximum" loads being fired. Opening the action, and allowing the spent case to fly off somewhere.
Still a possible design flaw in the stock. It should certainly be able to take the recoil of what ever rounds the gun is chambered in. But not necessarily a design flaw in the action of the gun.
 
On a separate note you all have probably saw I stared warning threads everywhere I could think of. The number so stories coming in of similar failures is disturbing!
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Where are the stories coming in from?

And can you refer to the diagram, please? Still waiting on that. I'm sure gunsmiths here and over on the NGF will appreciate knowing which part failed.

Regards,

Josh
 
Cheapshooter, the stock fracture might not be a design flaw at all. If the bolt is loose, the stock can fracture (it is not uncommon in this and other platforms, but that is a maintenance issue). Failure to warn could be the the primary cause in this case, which is the case in the large majority of product defect cases.

Based on the fact that the court did not mandate a recall, issuance of a technical warning, etc. by T/C, it is unlikely that the court held the belief that there was a defect in design or manufacture.

There is a LOT we do not know and the answers are easy for Mr. Ward to provide should he so choose to do so.
 
Cheapshooter, the stock fracture might not be a design flaw at all. If the bolt is loose, the stock can fracture (it is not uncommon in this and other platforms, but that is a maintenance issue).
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Good point!
 
Josh,
Different forums, people are saying they had or know of problems with the gun.

I need to ask my gun expert and lawyer for a definite part failure list. The Gun stock for sure broke! I know what parts appeared to be damaged and what caused it to open. But I don’t know if I can say that particular part failed.
 
I'll just leave this here...

Brian Ward posted at ArcheryTalk on May 23, 2015:

I went back at looked at my notes, my final loads for my hunt were 85 grains of H-1000.

It is over the published data of 83 from Hodgdon Data Manual.

I worked up from 10% below max and worked up the final load in half grain increments looking for accuracy (also potency) since I was hunting for moose in Alaska with Griz running around. There were no pressure signs in the cases compared to the 83 gr load (no blown primers, splits, cracks etc.). I even had two other experienced reloaders look at the cases.

Also, since this was a single shot, I was not seating the bullet as deep, allowing for more case capacity… but I was not engaging the rifling. My loads did not exceed SAAMI PSI for the 300 win mag. They were at max but not over.
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Sigh...

I have no experience with the .300 Win Mag, folks. What would a 2 grain overcharge do?

(Looking at current loads for the H1000 published by Hodgdon, the max loads for the 180 grain NOS E-TIP and the 180 grain SPR MT-SP are 79.4 grains compressed and 81.0 grains compressed, respectively.)

Looks like there was an extra .45acp charge of powder in there.

I'm still interested in knowing what parts failed.

Regards,

Josh
 
2 grains over max in an Encore in 300Mag will cause a little bit of case damage, maybe. Maybe hard extraction. No way it will cause a catastrophic failure, even if run for thousands of rounds. Now if the brass is not properly inspected, sized and trimmed, that can cause an issue over time.
 
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