Embarrassing day at the range

dakota.potts

New member
Took my newly finished rifle to the range today to set it in. A friend of mine loaned me a Lead Sled Pro, which I had never used before, and I figured that I had best set it up and take it so I could get some groups recorded with the rifle.

I went with the rifle boresighted using a collimator and the lead sled put together. I did not have any bags of lead shot and figured that the rest would be heavy enough to be relatively stable (mistake).

I had two boxes of ammo, a 165 grain Federal Fusion and a 178 grain Hornady Precision Hunter which together cost me almost $60 at the local gun store. I really wanted to get some good groups on paper so I was willing to pay for what seemed to be higher quality ammo.

Despite being bore sighted, it took me a number of shots to even get on paper with the Federal Fusion. I got it dialed in without using too much of the box, but then the trouble started. The lead sled jumped every shot (I didn't expect that to happen so bad without the lead in place to hold it down, rookie mistake) so that I had to reset it every time. I was not able to get a comfortable and consistent cheek weld every time, and I noticed that when moving my head around in relation to the scope, I could see the crosshairs move around the target slightly without the gun moving at all. So without holding the gun in the same repeatable condition, every time I re-centered the sled I could have been slightly off from the last time. I also had a hard time keeping the optic reliably in focus, and I actually started to get mirage fairly quickly (probably because of temperature differential since it was around 35 degrees outside). I shot two 5 round groups this way and they averaged about 3" at 100, way bigger than a rifle like mine should be shooting. After the second group this way, shots started to walk a lot, and after a couple shots, the front action screw fell out of the gun altogether! I just assembled the completed gun a couple days ago and remember tightening the screw down but not to the point where it felt like it was binding on anything. It must not have been tight enough and worked its way loose.

Obviously re-tightening of the front action screw changes the way everything sits and my zero was horribly lost. Having only 100 yard range and 12" bulls-eye targets, I decided to make the best of it but the rest of the day was lost. I took the bolt out and used the rest to look down the bore, center a target, and align the scope to that, but it didn't work very well. My shots were nowhere off paper and the splashes I could see in the backstop were several feet away. I spent the rest of my second box (the expensive Hornady Precision Hunter) trying to walk it in via splash but got nowhere close. I discovered later that I accidentally put a single shot clean through the bullseye -- of a different target than the one I was aiming at.

Pretty frustrated right now because I wanted to have something to show for the rifle and the ammo was a pretty large investment.

After making sure everything in the rifle is tight (including the scope), I'll have to take it to the range with a couple good rest bags. I have shot off a variety of rests on a bench and, despite the stability that the lead sled offers, I have learned that there's a certain technique to it that I've not yet acquired. Even with the lead in place, it seems to me that the rifle would still have opportunity to shift somewhat and lead to the issues I was having aligning the scope before. Rested off of bags, I'm very familiar with the techniques to get consistent cheek weld and eye relief and I think I'll shoot better. I'll also try to shoot at a closer range first with a much bigger target.

One of those days where you have to remind yourself everything will be OK, nothing major is broken, but you have to pick your pride up (and in my case, reconcile all the expensive ammo gone)
 
Try using the cheaper Winchester Power Points or the standard blue box Federal loads----you'd be surprised how accurate they can be---never had a rifle that didn't like one or the other or both.

Then if you want to step up to the expensive loads after you get the rifle squared away--you didn't spend a fortune doing it.

And yes, try getting on paper at 25 yds then move back after that.
 
I second the Winchester Power Points. And they can be had for as low as $18.

Get a group on paper then figure out what it likes to eat. I have Winchesters that like Winchester ammo, Remingtons that like Federal ammo, and Marlins that like federal ammo. But they all started with a good base group and then a comparison group with different ammo.
 
I think you have several "issues" beyond the apparent ones given.
Before getting a laser boresighter, I used the "look through the bore and adjust the crosshairs" method with suitable results. Using a "lead sled" w/o added weight shouldn't cause all those problems unless there's something else going on, too. Even a lead sled isn't a "battery/machine rest" with total return to zero function-which will likely cause stock damage BTW.
Having the front action screw fall out should have been an indicator that you should stop and figure out what/why such things were happening.
I do understand the desire to make the most of range time but continuing to shoot after so many things have gone belly up seems counter productive.
In 2010, I watched a young guy shoot 3 boxes(60 rounds) of 30/06 (at a rate that had his barrel so hot it burned his finger when he touched it)while trying to "adjust" his $40 "tactical" scope. It took me 10 seconds to show him that his base screws were loose.
 
Before setting your target at 100 yards set up at 5 yards to at least see if you are on paper. One inch low at 5 yards should get you close at 100.
 
If you don't mind, I'll chime in with a few questions (boresighting aside- since you eventually got on paper).

First- no disrespect- but what's your experience in shooting bolt guns; are you an accurate marksman? Gotta rule out the possibility of shooter error first...

Second:
Obviously re-tightening of the front action screw changes the way everything sits and my zero was horribly lost.

EDIT: Didn't see where the front screw fell out- as mentioned, shouldn't have happened- even without loctite so quickly.

BTW...correct method of tightening action screws is to have both screws loosely in place; tap the buttstock on the ground to seat the recoil lug firmly against the bedding or cross-bolt and lightly tighten the front screw first- before the back screw. Then alternate and torque both screws to desired value.

I believe you mentioned bedding in one of your prior posts. Was it both receiver and pillar bed, or just one or the other? Provide some detail as to what you did, and the methods.

To check a bedding job, there's good info, here:

http://benchrest.com/archive/index.php/t-60740.html

Headspace/barrel fitting:
Did you true the face of the action before fitting the barrel?
Blue the lug raceways/check for lug contact, and lap if necessary?
Did you hand ream the shallow chamber to set the headspace, or do it on the lathe?

You certainly should be getting better than 3" groups, even with factory hunting ammo. But, I wouldn't just start slinging more ammo downrange until you've ruled out most everything else.

Happy to help the cause. PM me if you'd like me to ship you some ammo.
 
"I noticed that when moving my head around in relation to the scope, I could see the crosshairs move around the target slightly without the gun moving at all."

That's a parallax problem.

I've never used a lead sled. Just sandbags, and usually home-made ones. If need be, I've put a 4"x4" block beneath the forearm's sandbag. I always put the forearm bag in the same location as my support hand would be in the field.

I've boresighted from the dining table, set up with books and towels and sighting out the window at something down the street. A car's headlight or an electric transformer on a pole. Whatever.

Initial sight-in? I do it at 25 yards. Takes maybe three shots to be dead-on. That has always had me within three inches of center at 100 yards. (Bolt action, low bases for the scope.)

For hunting, my preference is two inches high at 100 yards.
 
To address a couple things:

It would be great to sight in at 25 yards but I shoot at a free public range which only has lanes at 50 and 100 for rifles.

I'm not the most experienced marksman in the world but I've been shooting bolt action rifles off a bench for 3 or 4 years, mostly .22.

The face of the action has not been trued or the lugs lapped. The barrel was chambered from a blank (no short chamber) on a lathe and the headspace checked by multiple people.

The rifle is pillar and glass bedded, done at the same time with acra glass.

The experience I do have and my time building the gun tells me it's probably not so much an issue of how the gun was built and I think I'll get better results by eliminating simple problems and working up. I'll disassemble the rifle and re seat/tighten the torque screws in the manner suggested here, make sure everything including scope bases and rings is tightened down, and try it again from a rest that I'm familiar with.
 
I don't like my lead sled. I can't come close to my normal shooting position, eye relief, cheek weld, etc.

I like using sand bags. And letting the lay without muscling.

There are times after bore sighting I'm not close at 100 yards. If I have a difficult rifle or load to sight in, I take a spotter with me.

Our club range had gongs at 300 yards. The gong is in front of a dirt bank making it easy to shot the hits. Using a spotter, I can walk the load into the gong. Once I get the gong zeroed it, I made what ever scope or iron sight adjustments I need to drop down to 100 yards, the fine tune it.

I then make the necessary adjustments and go back to the gong. If my sight adjustments work between 100 and 300 with my ballistic table for this round, it should work at other ranges.

I then go to an abandoned gravel pit and shoot different distances to confirm my ballistic tables.

Its a lot of shooting, but no matter, that's why I have guns in the first place, to shoot.

Another advantage of shooting at several different distances is to fine tune my G7 BR2 range finder. I adjust the velocity inputs on my range finder until it matches my zeros at different distances. Then I forget it, when hunting all I have to do is range the target, add the adjustments the G7 calls for and I'm on.
 
I think you have several "issues" beyond the apparent ones given.

Before getting a laser boresighter, I used the "look through the bore and adjust the crosshairs" method with suitable results. Using a "lead sled" w/o added weight shouldn't cause all those problems unless there's something else going on, too. Even a lead sled isn't a "battery/machine rest" with total return to zero function-which will likely cause stock damage BTW.

Having the front action screw fall out should have been an indicator that you should stop and figure out what/why such things were happening.

I do understand the desire to make the most of range time but continuing to shoot after so many things have gone belly up seems counter productive.

In 2010, I watched a young guy shoot 3 boxes(60 rounds) of 30/06 (at a rate that had his barrel so hot it burned his finger when he touched it)while trying to "adjust" his $40 "tactical" scope. It took me 10 seconds to show him that his base screws were loose.



I have had this happen to me . With a savage and weaver base . I quit shooting it went on to something else and found my loose base screw


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Yes, at Fort Dix in the Summer of 1967 we first fired our M-14s on the 1000 inch range to get us on paper-and to learn to shoot.
 
A lot of good advice Dakota. Don't fret, I'm sure she's a shooter. As mentioned:
Dump the led sled
Check parallax
Torque the screws
Start at a distance shorter than 100
Get a spotter if you can

You probably had trouble zeroing due to the loose screw as well as the struggles with the led sled.
Nothing to be embarrassed about. Don't make us wait till the weekend to hear how she shoots !
 
A lot of good advice Dakota. Don't fret, I'm sure she's a shooter. As mentioned:
Dump the led sled
Check parallax
Torque the screws
Start at a distance shorter than 100
Get a spotter if you can

You probably had trouble zeroing due to the loose screw as well as the struggles with the led sled.
Nothing to be embarrassed about. Don't make us wait till the weekend to hear how she shoots !

Thanks for your advice. Unfortunately there won't be any shooting for at least a couple of days. I'm going down to Florida later this week for a meeting/interview for a gunsmithing position after school and I'm bringing the rifle to show. I would have loved to have a good group on paper to compliment it but I won't have an opportunity to get back before then. I may shoot it with my family while down in Florida though.

One thing I'm not really sure of is how to correct for parallax. Do you just move your head looking for movement and adjust the rear ring until the reticle doesn't move with your head?
 
Dang Potts! You're after learning experiences and this was a learning experience for sure. I think you did good. You'll be able to talk about lead sleds, zeroing, etc. etc. from experience and not just from what someone told you.

As to the rifle...like you said there is work yet to do on it and if it ran perfect first time out you wouldn't be learning as much as you will now.

Chalk it up as a VERY illuminating experience and for sure don't think things work good for everybody else the first time.

Good luck.
 
Fixed parallax. Believe it's a hundred yds. You shouldn't see the crosshairs move on the target when you move your head.
 
Parallax:
Get behind the rifle in a comfortable way. Adjust your seat. Your head position is somewhat set by where you put your trigger hand. Adjust your natural point of aim, just as you would if you're firing prone. Dry fire a couple of times. Note where everything is; elbows, hands, cheek, the forend of the rifle. You need to get back to more or less to this same position for each shot in the string.

If you take the time to build the position correctly, a little parallax isn't a big deal. All the same fundamental stuff applies whether you're prone, standing, or shooting off a rest.
 
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