EMB-Bullets (former Hirtenberger, now Fiocchi) any experience

P

Para Bellum

New member
In search for the perfect delf defense ammo (perferably in 9x19mm) I have found this:
emb_40S&W.jpg


The EMB, "EXPANSIONS - MONOBLOCK BULLET".
Looks like a great concept. Penetrates hard targets without expanding. Expands in soft targets. No hollowpoint. More info here.

Do any of you have experience with this ammunition?
 
124gr Federal EFMJ 9x19mm or 93gr Hirtenberger FL...

That's a little on the light side, IMO. I'd prefer something closer to 7.5grams
Click to expand...
I thought so, too. Thats why by now I prefer 124gr EFMJ bullets. But our Austrian Police uses 6 grams / 93gr Hirtenberger FL bullets. :confused: Maybe speed is a bonus?

Since I mentioned the 124gr 9x19mm EFMJ, here's some more about them:

Click here for my own test.

Here a pic of a 9x19mm 124gr EFMJ going throgh 1" of gelatine:
efmjgel.jpg


or some plywood:
efmjply.jpg
 
Hello Para Bellum,
Would you mind sending a couple of boxes over here to me? Both 9mm and .45acp. If it's not too much trouble, that is. :rolleyes:

:D
 
I'd love to. If you clear Austrian-Export and US-Import Authorities... :o
I am pretty impressed with this Ammo:

Energy: E10 " 625 J
E0 " 650 J

this is equivalent to:
" 2 x .38 Special
" 1,3 x 9 mm Para (standard FJ-round)
" lower end of E0 - scale of .357 Mag.
Click to expand...

650j = 490ft/lbs

I can't wait to see if our tests proove this!
stay tuned...(and safe)
 
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Don't know much about the .357sig, but it looks like it's out-performing the competition in the link Para provided in his first post.
 
9x19mm EMB "outperforming .357 Sig."

Trip20:
Don't know much about the .357sig, but it looks like it's out-performing the competition in the link Para provided in his first post.
Click to expand...

Could be. We'll test it soon. What they say in that link is:

EXPANSIONS - MONOBLOCK BULLET
( EMB - bullet )
Caliber 9 x 19 mm Luger

Velocity: v10 = 500 m/s (mean value) - EMB 5,0 g
v10 = 455 m/s (mean value) - EMB 6,0 g
fired from NATO test barrel 200 mm length

Energy: E10 " 625 J
E0 " 650 J

this is equivalent to:
" 2 x .38 Special
" 1,3 x 9 mm Para (standard FJ-round)
" lower end of E0 - scale of .357 Mag.
Click to expand...

But they also say in another page of that link:

CARTRIDGE 9 x 19 mm Luger with
EMB-bullet 6,0 g
(Expansions-Monoblock Bullet)

Technical datas:
Bullet weight: mp = 6,0 g ± 0,1 g
Bullet material: Guilding metal CuZn 10
Case: Brass CuZn 30, designed for Boxer-primer
Primer: Boxer-primer, priming composition "Antikorrid®" - rust proof and erosions resisting, or
heavy metal free -free of lead, barium and antimony
Propellant: Single- or double base powder
Ballistic datas in measuring barrel, barrel length 100 mm according to Technical Guidline of German Polizei-Führungsakademie: Pressure: Pmax =<2.700 bar bzw. =< 270 MPa (mean value)
Velocity: v10 = 415 m/s (mean value)
Energy: E10 ±517 J
Click to expand...

...which doesn't really fit together, does it? Maybe the difference is all due to the different barrel lengths of 4" (100mm) and 8" (200mm).

Please also note that there is an EMB Bullet in .357 Sig, which outperforms a Saturn V Rocket. This data is also from that source:

[QUOTE]357 SIG EMB: mp = 6,0 g
v10 = 550 m/s
E10 = 900 J

Remarks: Same range of E0 - scale as .357 Magnum
Recoil like a conventional 9 mm Para round [/QUOTE]

So, I can't wait to see, how this 9x19mm EMB bullet performs in comparison to 9x19 EFMJ, .40 EFMJ, and .45 EFMJ... stay tuned :D
 
As stated I have little knowledge of the .357sig.

Decided to do a search on TFL - found out it's a pretty "hot topic" amongst 9x19'ers and .357sig'ers.

-"No advantage in the .357sig that the 9x19+p+ can't offer..." ETC

-".357sig can pierce light armor and car doors..." ETC

LOL

It's almost like the 9x19/.40sw/.45acp arguments 'cept we now have an additional round to argue about.

Guess I'll have to read and formulate my own opinion about the round, rather than take opinions from TFL too seriously.
 
...I think the entire calibre discussion can be summed up with a basic line:
More energy or diameter can't substitute placement. And if placement is well, penetration and expansion count.
 
Very true.

My only concern in the .357sig vs 9x19 debate would be:

Does performance of the .357sig over the 9x19 outweigh the difference in cost and availability?
Click to expand...

But hey, lets not let me hi-jack your thread ;)

There's plenty of this mumbo-jumbo to read on TFL and the rest of the internet w/out takin' this thread to a dark place (i.e. caliber debate). I had/have not read much about the .357sig and was suprised by the link you posted, and just wanted to mention so.

PS - I'll be looking forward to your updates/results.
 
Unfortunately, these rounds are considered AP here in the 'States and as such are not available to us mere peas......er, civilians.

I would like to know, however, why copper solid rounds (Barnes, Taurus, etc.) in handguns aren't considered AP but these are?
 
Need Cor-Bon 90gr 9x19mm 4" barrel velocity data

I want to compare the 6g (93gr) EMB bullet in terms of energy with the 90gr Corbon in 9x19mm.

The EMB has the following data:
Velocity: v10 = 1361ft/sec (415 m/s, mean value) from a 4" (100mm) barrel (source)

What is the v10* of Cor-Bon's 90gr 9x19mm bullet fired from a 4" barrel?
The data I found don't specify the barrel-length and whether it's v0* or v10*

*) Velocity after 0 or 10 Meters (~yds)
 
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FWIW, the bullet material on the EMB is guilding metal CuZn 10. Same material Hirtenberger has been making bullet jackets with for years now. I can't see why it can't be imported in the US. Anybody have a direct quote/cite on its prohibited status?
 
I can't remember the definition of AP for pistol rounds, but my guess is that a solid copper/gilding metal bullet will qualify.
 
Thank you, JohnKSa. We all know that BATFE will define whatever it, in its infinite wisdom, will deem categorizable. However, the AP round definition in this instance would seem to arise from the GCA, specifically, as defined in 18 U.S.C. Section 921(a)(17)(B), i.e.,
...a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or
...a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

The material used in the EMB bullet is a copper-zinc alloy. Granted, I know very little about metallurgy and perhaps that's why I'm assuming, more than is prudently necessary but the EMB doesn't seem to fit those definitions. Unless, of course, the definition of beryllium copper is exactly that; a copper-zinc alloy.
 
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