Elian's gone!
- Thread starter *Cag
- Start date
Destructo6
New member
Makes me sick to say I'm a US citizen.
Robert Foote
New member
Makes ME sick to see the way this kid--and the entire country--was manipulated. These 'caring' relatives did nothing but tell his father, the law, and us to get stuffed. Their idea of reasonable was to keep throwing gas on the fire. This was essentially a custody case on steroids. The kid is with his father where he belongs. To hell with the goddam politics and the emotion-ridden masses. Maybe next time we can apply a little common sense and the existing case law. But I doubt it.
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To all of you who are crying about the way the US government handled this issue: I say about damn time. The child was an illegal alien in our country--that is it plain and simple! The INS officials are constantly fighting this battle on the borders. Nobody cries or whimpers when illegal drug traffikers are busted or vanloads of illegal aliens are caught attempting to gain access to our country. How is this different!! What would you like for us to do next? Allow the kid to stay? Well then we would be hypocrites and have to open our borders to everyone. Where do we draw the line!? The kid belongs to his father...not the uncle! The majority of you whining have probably never served proudly in our countries armed forces. We have died protecting our borders so whiners like you can rant and rave with the freedom of speech you have not earned! We, the soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines have fought to give you this! You are just taking it all for granted. If you don't like this WONDERFUL country we live in, then pack your bags and GET THE HELL OUT! Go to Cuba, Russia or any place at all outside our borders. In about a week you will be crying to be let back in! You can only take advantage of the things you have. Once they are gone, you are S.O.L.! In my opinion, it is more of a shame how long was spent negotiating in the first place. Elian was basically being held hostage. Should have happened sooner!
Destructo6
New member
Contrary to popular belief, 99% of Mexican illegals voluntarily return to Mexico (knowing they can return the next night). Otherwise they are deported offically (making it a crime the next time they're caught) after an often lengthy process in the courts. Since the Supreme Court recently ruled that they cannot be held in custody awaiting court dates, that means they roam freely.
Personally, I think the kid's Miami family should have "lost" him for about the next 10 years. It works for the White House.
Personally, I think the kid's Miami family should have "lost" him for about the next 10 years. It works for the White House.
Robert Foote
New member
Columbe: Wrong. At most he was 'paroled' in under INS law and legally speaking, not even in the US (not having sought or obtained legal admission). And, being a minor without a legal guardian, unable to seek asylum under the existing laws. Without his father, who is authorized to speak for him, it was simple Catch-22. Having worked for INS for 22 years, I am amazed at how many experts have come out of the woodwork. Perhaps we should get a final ruling from Oprah on all this. Myself, I need a stiff drink.
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Regarding BMiracle's rather bizzare post (edited)
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BMiracle:
To all of you who are crying about the way the US government handled this issue: I say about damn time. The child was an illegal alien in our country--that is it plain and simple! Nobody cries or whimpers when illegal drug traffikers are busted or vanloads of illegal aliens are caught attempting to gain access to our country. How is this different!! The majority of you whining have probably never served proudly in our countries armed forces. We have died protecting our borders so whiners like you can rant and rave with the freedom of speech you have not earned! We, the soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines have fought to give you this! You are just taking it all for granted. If you don't like this WONDERFUL country we live in, then pack your bags and GET THE HELL OUT! Go to Cuba, Russia or any place at all outside our borders. ![/quote]
First of all there is a difference between refugees who are fleeing communism versus drug trafficers and those who come here for economic reasons.
Regarding your wild assumption that people who disagree with you are all non-veterans, I for one am an Army veteran.
Perhaps it is you who should go and live in Cuba so that you could learn what it is like to live under communism.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BMiracle:
To all of you who are crying about the way the US government handled this issue: I say about damn time. The child was an illegal alien in our country--that is it plain and simple! Nobody cries or whimpers when illegal drug traffikers are busted or vanloads of illegal aliens are caught attempting to gain access to our country. How is this different!! The majority of you whining have probably never served proudly in our countries armed forces. We have died protecting our borders so whiners like you can rant and rave with the freedom of speech you have not earned! We, the soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines have fought to give you this! You are just taking it all for granted. If you don't like this WONDERFUL country we live in, then pack your bags and GET THE HELL OUT! Go to Cuba, Russia or any place at all outside our borders. ![/quote]
First of all there is a difference between refugees who are fleeing communism versus drug trafficers and those who come here for economic reasons.
Regarding your wild assumption that people who disagree with you are all non-veterans, I for one am an Army veteran.
Perhaps it is you who should go and live in Cuba so that you could learn what it is like to live under communism.
Destructo6
New member
The photographer was next door when the INS vehicles arrived. When they started knocking down the front door, the family let him in the back to capture events on film. He did that.
The interesting juxtaposition of this entire mess is the role reversal of the two major parties in America.
The Republican party, the party of family values, don't kill your children, and family unity, wants the boy alienated from his father and given to distant relatives.
The Democratic party, the party of live life for the moment, kill your children, and children don't need fathers wants him returned to his father for repatriation.
Now here's the rub. The INS should never have had jurisdiction in this case in the first place. A friend of mine who is a Commander in the Navy was talking to the JAG a couple of weeks ago and the JAG told him that under International Maritime Law the boy should have been given to his father immediately. He stated that Maritime law is extremely clear on the issue of rescues of persons on the high seas which are minor children. They are to be reunited with their parents or surviving parent immediately or as soon as is practicable.
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Gun Control: The proposition that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own panty hose, is more acceptable than allowing that same woman to defend herself with a firearm.
The Republican party, the party of family values, don't kill your children, and family unity, wants the boy alienated from his father and given to distant relatives.
The Democratic party, the party of live life for the moment, kill your children, and children don't need fathers wants him returned to his father for repatriation.
Now here's the rub. The INS should never have had jurisdiction in this case in the first place. A friend of mine who is a Commander in the Navy was talking to the JAG a couple of weeks ago and the JAG told him that under International Maritime Law the boy should have been given to his father immediately. He stated that Maritime law is extremely clear on the issue of rescues of persons on the high seas which are minor children. They are to be reunited with their parents or surviving parent immediately or as soon as is practicable.
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Gun Control: The proposition that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own panty hose, is more acceptable than allowing that same woman to defend herself with a firearm.
I'd have to agree with Mr. Foote. The boy's father was checked out some weeks ago. No negatives. In any ordinary family custody battle this thing would have been over a couple of months ago and the boy would have been with his father.
It is a shame that the political hysteria on both sides has made this 6 year old child an object.
My objections to using a swat team approach is that it was probably necessary with a (potentially) hysterical crowd of 100s. Ordinarily if an Uncle wouldn't have obeyed a custody order a quiet, low key visit from a deputy or juvenile officer would have been the end of it. I don't think that was possible here.
I've seen a lot of support here for fostering a strong sense of family values.
Let's hear it from the fathers out there. If it was your son - and you had jumped through all the hoops, home visits, investigations, court appearances - and you had won the legal battles to maintain custody of your son - how would you feel if thousands of people who simply didn't like where you lived (maybe California?)- including relatives and inlaws - just said "Screw you, p*** on the courts, and to hell with law and blood ties"? Took your son and seized on him as a spring board to make a political statement.
If it were your son - which ones of you would hope that the courts and law enforcement would ignore you and your son's situation?
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Jim Fox
It is a shame that the political hysteria on both sides has made this 6 year old child an object.
My objections to using a swat team approach is that it was probably necessary with a (potentially) hysterical crowd of 100s. Ordinarily if an Uncle wouldn't have obeyed a custody order a quiet, low key visit from a deputy or juvenile officer would have been the end of it. I don't think that was possible here.
I've seen a lot of support here for fostering a strong sense of family values.
Let's hear it from the fathers out there. If it was your son - and you had jumped through all the hoops, home visits, investigations, court appearances - and you had won the legal battles to maintain custody of your son - how would you feel if thousands of people who simply didn't like where you lived (maybe California?)- including relatives and inlaws - just said "Screw you, p*** on the courts, and to hell with law and blood ties"? Took your son and seized on him as a spring board to make a political statement.
If it were your son - which ones of you would hope that the courts and law enforcement would ignore you and your son's situation?
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Jim Fox
In my opinion the ultimate responsabilty for the child having to see a swat team is his Miami "family". They have used that child for their own reasons. If you want to be mad at somebody be mad at the family that has not allowed Elian to return to his father.
I feel this whole thing has been pathetic. All those protesters need to go home and stop costing the city of Miami money. I am pissed that my tax dollars are paying for this crap.
I feel this whole thing has been pathetic. All those protesters need to go home and stop costing the city of Miami money. I am pissed that my tax dollars are paying for this crap.