Elian Stays!!!

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the Atlanta 11th appelate court has ruled that he must stay until the court process has been properly completed.....so far, only the apalert.com wire has the story but all the radio stations are bradcasting the report... and Rush L. is happier than I have heard him in a while
 
STORY

Court Keeps Elian in U.S. For Now
By Russ Bynum
Associated Press Writer
Wednesday, April 19, 2000; 3:19 p.m. EDT

ATLANTA –– In a strongly worded ruling, a federal appeals court today extended a court order keeping Elian Gonzalez in the United States. In Miami's Little Havana, crowds erupted in cheers at the latest step in the long-running custody dispute.

The 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals panel barred anyone from attempting to remove the 6-year-old boy from the country and suggested the Miami relatives' efforts to argue their case shouldn't be ignored.

"(We) doubt that protecting a party's day in court, when he has an appeal of arguable merit, is contrary to the public interest," the judges wrote.

The judges said they recognized the government's authority over immigration matters, but added that "we fail to see how an injunction in the case infringes upon the congressional power."

The panel was critical of Immigration and Naturalization Service's handling of the boy's asylum request.

"Not only does it appear that plaintiff might be entitled to apply personally for asylum, it appears that he did so. According to the record, plaintiff – although a young child – has expressed a wish that he not be returned to Cuba."

"It appears that never have INS officials attempted to interview plaintiff about his own wishes," the judges wrote. "It is not clear that the INS, in finding plaintiff's father to be the only proper representative, considered all of the relevant factors – particularly the child's separate and independent interests in seeking asylum."

The ruling, however, did not address the government's efforts to reunite the boy with his father, pending further appeals before the same court.

There was no immediate reaction from the Justice Department or from attorneys representing the boy's Miami relatives. The court order, issued last week, had delayed government efforts to bring Elian to Washington to meet his father, Juan Miguel Gonzalez, who wants to return with him to Cuba.

The court ruling, which could be appealed, is considered a critical step in the international custody dispute that has lasted for nearly five months.

In Little Havana, Cuban-Americans feared that only the court order was keeping federal agents from attempting to remove Elian from the home of his great-uncle Lazaro Gonzalez. Earlier today, Attorney General Janet Reno said taking the boy by force was an option but she was trying to avoid any violence.

"There may come a time when there is no other alternative. But we've got to do it in a careful, thoughtful way," Reno had said.

Protesters have kept a ceaseless vigil at the home, and some have vowed to disrupt any removal attempt.

The temporary injunction defused a potential crisis a week ago, when the Miami relatives ignored a government deadline to hand over the boy and thousands massed in Little Havana.

At the time, the Justice Department agreed not to take action to reunite Elian with his father for a few days while reminding Lazaro Gonzalez that officials considered him to have lost custody for missing the deadline.

Elian was rescued by two fishermen while clinging to an inner tube off the Florida Coast on Thanksgiving Day. He was among three people who survived, but his mother and 10 others fleeing Cuba drowned when their boat sank.

Lazaro Gonzalez was awarded temporary custody and the boy's Miami relatives have been caring for him ever since. They insist Elian will be better off living with them, and their bid for an asylum hearing is also before the appeals court, with oral arguments scheduled for May 11.

The Clinton administration, however, has pressed for the reunion of Elian with his father, saying only he can speak for the boy on immigration matters. The court order upheld Wednesday had temporarily blocked anyone from taking Elian out of the country until it decides whether to hear the asylum claims.

The family has argued that Elian would be psychologically harmed and will face persecution if he is returned to Cuba.

The father, Juan Miguel Gonzalez, flew to Washington on April 6 and has been waiting to meet his son. The government has said he is willing to wait in the United States for the asylum issue to be settled – if he has custody of Elian.

Since January, Reno and the government have repeatedly extended the deadline for Lazaro Gonzalez to surrender the boy. Last week, the nation's top law officer took the extraordinary step of flying to Miami to meet with family members.

But both sides have failed to agree on details of a reunion. The government insists that Lazaro Gonzalez – referred to by federal attorneys as "a mere distant relative" – surrender custody of the boy, while the family has sought a meeting with Juan Miguel Gonzalez without conditions.

------------------
Slowpoke Rodrigo...he pack a gon...

Vote for the Neal Knox 13
 
JESUS. I am sick and tired of hearing about that stupid little boy. How much of my hard earned $$ went to this maddness I wonder??? As if he were the next coming of the messiah or something. The only positive is that his ability to stay sort of rubs Reno's nose in it. The double standard kind of gets to me though. He gets to stay cause he's cute and cuddly, but the chinese we find half staved on cargo ships go to jail. We need to stop the some are more equal than others bit and either open the borders to people again or close them to ALL.

------------------
"Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes."
-R.A. Heinlein
 
If the tables were turned and it was a mother in Cuba trying to get her son back, you'd see a totally different approach to this matter. All the moms in America would stand up and say...Oh that little boy should be returned to his mother!! All fathers should stand up for this kid's dad. If it was my boy that my wife took to another country and she drowned in the process I would do exactly what this dad has done. Of course in this country only the mom has absolute rights and the father is just a donor. Sorry if I offend anyone but I too am tired of hearing about this deal. That is the boy's real father and they should be together no matter what country they are from.
 
I too, think this is beyond the point of absurd.

The Cold War is over. Castro is not the Boogie Man. A boy belongs with his father (who by the way, isn't in a gulag... just Cuba). The Cuban exiles in the US are fighting an old, tired grudge, and using this kid as a pawn... nothing more. We have trade relations with China, a Communist country with serious human rights problems who engages in overt espionage against us, and we isolate Cuba like a leper. Anyone else see the hypocrisy here?

I am NO friend of Communism, but this whole issue is out of whack. Let the boy go home. imo
---

[This message has been edited by Covert Mission (edited April 19, 2000).]
 
Washington Times April 5

Story Headline

Elian 'A possession' of State, Cuba says

Do you get it now?

Have you seen the pictures of the "villa" where they are going to reintegrate Elian
Shall I translate for you "political reeducation"

I understand all the arguments and for the most part agree with them in most cases the child should be returned to the father. However there are extenuating circumstances here,
Before you advocate sending this boy back to Cuba remember this.
1. There is that little discussed Cuban Law passed in 1976 which states that "children are property of the state"
2. The Cuban community takes care of it own out of their own pockets not the US Tax payers.
3. There is a US Law passed in 1965 which states any Cuban National who sets foot on US soil can stay simply by saying "I want to stay" and it may not be fare but they are the only foreigners so privileged in this way. And yes there was no age limit implied there is even a precedent of a Lithuanian boy 14 who’s parents returned to Russia who stated he wanted to stay against their wishes and he got to.
4. The Boys Milk ration will be cut in half at 8 if he returns to Cuba. (Last time I checked we did not ration milk or have Bread lines like they have in Cuba)
5. At age 10 or 12 (don't remember which) ALL Cuban children are forced to work one month out of three in the cane fields as slave labor to "pay for their education"
6. For the First time in his life Elian probably does not go to bed hungry.

Is it any wonder that Fidel’s own daughter defected to the US just a few years ago.

We have a set of courts in this country for deciding custody issues and these courts have decided cases identical to Elians in the past. Why has the federal government stepped in and interceded in this one case, while others that involve custody battles over international boundaries are left to the state family courts??

I can’t change the whole world but this little boy is here now, with a family who is willing to pay the freight for him.
If you don’t like the law then fine repeal, the 1965 law.
Why is it surprising that the current administration is ignoring those portions of the law that are inconvenient, as they have been doing it for 8 years.

We cant help all the victim children on this world but this one managed to get here and only a person with blinders on would advocate sending any child back to one of the few communist slave states left on the planet.

Besides anything that Castro, Janet R and Bill Clinton (not to mention a bunch of the other liberals want) I don’t want, just to be a pain if for no other reason.

Now have at me and please be civil.
 
I don't give a flying "F" about this kid and don't know anyone who does... what am I missing? It appears to be a human interest story that the media should have given a brief mention *ONCE*(in small print)... not months of headlines!

The real reason for my post: Did you see that part about how Janet Reno was prepared to "use force" to get him out?! Watch out! Last time that happened the kids got burned.

"We've got to get those kids to safety even if it means killing every last one of them!"
 
HukeOKC

The tables are turned, there are scores of kids who have been kidnapped and moved to other countries by one parent. When that parent died the kids were not returned to the surviving parent in the US. And Guess what, the Federal government is doing nothing to bring them home either.


This case is just the tip of a very covered up IceBurg that the press is ignoring. The Only difference is no one crying for the return our children.

Jordan
If that were true Elian would have been given asylum here in a month and his great uncle would have been granted permanent custody soon after. The fact that Elian was found on Thanksgiving which is a slow news day didn't help either.
The media loves to make news.


[This message has been edited by Alan B (edited April 19, 2000).]
 
Hey, The cold war may be over but last time I looked good old Fidel shot down a US private airplane not to long ago. And more to the point it makes A.G. Reno look like a duffus.
 
Reno IS a doofus. So is Clinton. Cuba sucks, but they're rolling over to avoid another Mariel. I agree that should be avoided (or sink them all within territorial waaters, feed the sharks, BFD/NGL). OTOH:

A. Father is closest blood relative.
B. Father appears to be a fit parent and has been active in the child's life.
C. We don't dicriminate based on political beliefs.
D: (IMO) Best thing for the kid is a rapid return to normalcy, i.e. send him home with daddy. Screw all that touchy-feely psycho-babble, send him home. The 'relatives' are exploiting him.

I'd also like signed pledges that all those Cubans will go back to Cuba when Fidel bites it, and quite using US policy to whup on Castro (not that I have a big problem with that), but long term, you're either an American or a Cuban, no more of this hyphenated crap, figure it out and behave accordingly. M2
 
Alan B:

Be careful not to swallow whole a lot of the misinformation about Cuba which is passed as fact. The following was written by a friend of mine, who writes for http://www.apbnews.com

He is a former Navy Intelligence and CIA career officer, who spent most of his career in ugly places around the world, fighting the encroachment of communism and repressive regimes. He is not a frothing liberal. He has spent time in Cuba on this story, and I trust his opinion more than a bunch of people... liberal OR conservative... who have an axe to grind. Here's the column:

"Outside the Box" - commentary by Chip Beck

Column Authorized for Reprint
email: BeckChip@aol.com
_____________________________________________
TIME TO UNITE A FATHER AND SON, AND TWO NATIONS
Commentary by CDR Chip Beck, USNR (ret)
Political Graphics & News Service
Arlington, Virginia

April 17, 2000

WASHINGTON D.C. - In December of last year, when the Elian Gonzales saga was
just beginning, I wrote that ordeals such as his, and similar ones that
affect many Cuban families, could be avoided if the United States and Cuba
had normal relations.

Normal relations, full travel channels, reciprocity, and an end to the
embargo would allow families to visit each other on both sides of the Florida
Straits on weekends, holidays, summertime, or anytime they wanted. It would
allow students to attend schools here on F-1 visas, travel, and participate
in exchange programs.

In short, the same courtesies that America extends to nearly every other
country in the world would be available to Cuba, a nation that has
historically been close to the U.S., and needs to be so again.

It would allow two countries to regain their sanity.

If there is any bright spot to this sorry affair, it is that months of pol
itical exploitation of 6-year old Elian, and the continued withholding of the
little boy from his natural father has resulted in consequences that the
Cuban exile leaders in Miami may not have counted on. It has demonstrated to
an increasing number of “other Americans” that the Cuban-American community
in Miami, or at least its leadership, are not so much interested in the
welfare of Elian Gonzales as they are in exacting revenge and vengeance for
defeats suffered 40 years ago.

One does not have to be a communist or a socialist to recognize right
from wrong in Elian’s case or understand that the Cold War is over. The
policies that were in place during that time with regard to Cuba seriously
need to discarded and replaced with new ones that will benefit the general
populations of both countries.

What still concerns many Americans, unnecessarily I believe, is the
presumed political and social climate in Cuba. Since 1998, I have visited
Cuba three times, and have led a total of 54 editorial writers, newspaper
publishers, and political cartoonists to the island for a firsthand view of
life on the island. At least 53 of them returned to the U.S. convinced that
Cuba represents no threat to the U.S., and that life, politics, and attitudes
on the island is drastically different (i.e. more positive) than the American
public is led to believe through the filters of isolation and the Miami
exiles.

As a former combat veteran and intelligence officer who fought against
Soviet hegemony and political interests around the world during the Cold War,
I believe my “credentials” are as solid as any Miami exile when it comes to
having served the United States in time of need.

However, the time has come for those of us who fought the hardest during
that time of Superpower strife to extend the hand of friendship to Cuba, its
people, and even the leadership at all levels of its government. During the
Cold War, our countries were at odds with each other. We both scored
“points” in the game of international brinkmanship, and each side has its
share of “victories and defeats.”

Fortunately, when we look back on the adversity and the struggles that
took place in the Cold War between Cuba and the U.S., we can be thankful that
neither side inflicted on the other the vast carnage that took place in the
Korean or Vietnam Wars.

That is not to say that along the way, in some of the secret conflicts as
well as the more public skirmishes, Americans and Cubans did not inflict harm
against each other. But it was not the wholesale physical destruction that I
have seen in Indochina, Afghanistan, Angola, Lebanon, and a dozen other
places where politics have gotten far out of hand during both internal civil
wars and international conflicts.

In my travels to Cuba, I don’t see a country that will persecute Elian or
harm the rest of its children. Instead, I see a nation where the principles
of Jose Martí and La Edad De Oro (“The Golden Age”) still stand as solid
family values for parents of both societies.

I no longer see a nation that has to be America’s adversary, but one that
could be not only a sovereign neighbor, but even a partner in resolving some
of the problems that exist in this hemisphere.

Whatever the politics of our two countries, be it socialism or
American-style democracy, both nations deserve the honor of
self-determination and sovereignty with regard to making their own choices on
how to live. If we have people in our societies who disagree on issues or
politics, the proper manifestation for those disagreements is through open
discussions, direct negotiations, calm talks, friendly debates, and mutual
contact.

The separation between Elian Gonzales and his father, Juan Miguel, has
gone on for five months too long. The separation between the U.S. and Cuba
and the psychological damage that has occurred over 40 years, has also gone
on far too long.

It is time to reunite father and son, and Cuba and the United States.
_____________________________________________
Chip Beck is a retired Navy Commander, former CIA officer, and veteran of
foreign wars.
-30-


[This message has been edited by Covert Mission (edited April 19, 2000).]
 
The Cold war may be over, but Castro IS the "Boggie man"; The tyrannical leader of a totalitarian police state.

And as Clinton himself has remarked, the rule of law IS at stake here. Only, as usual, Clinton has mistaken his own whims for the law.

The INS does NOT have the legal authority to make child custody decisions unilaterally. That's something the courts, and the state courts at that, do. And while some may think this is an open and shut case, the executive branch is not entitled to deny somebody their day in court just because they think that the outcome of the court case is a forgone conclusion.

Indeed, until Elain became a political football, the INS itself took the position that only the Florida courts could decide who got custody of this kid. It was only after Castro threatened to re-enact the Marial(SP?) boatlift, and empty his prisons onto Florida's shore, that the INS reneged on that committment. And curiously, immediately after that decision, Cuba agreed to take 8 Cuban criminals we'd been trying to deport for some time.

For the Clinton administration, this isn't about a little boy and his fate, it's not even about the law; It's just a perverted hostage swap.

------------------
Sic semper tyrannis!
 
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[This message has been edited by Karanas (edited April 19, 2000).]
 
Covert Mission


And as stated above this is from "Outside the Box" - commentary by Chip Beck, which is another word for Editoral which could have little or no basis in fact but is this persons "opinion"

However as stated above why has this case not been allowed to proceed to a FL. Family court like all other custody cases, even those that cross international boundries?

While ever word might very well be true it doesn't change the facts I stated.

Food is still rationed in Cuba.

The cuban law which makes children property of the state.

Cuba is still a communist country which was just condemned by the UN for Human rights abuses. (I hate quoting the UN as they are suspect in my book too)

The 1965 United States law granting asylum to any Cuban who gets here as asks for it.

The Cuban governments preperation of a villa to be used to "reintigrate" Elian back into cuban life, the cuban media's words not an exiles comments.

And last but not least I do not believe the cold war is completly over.. Its deminsions have changed but there are still communist countries out there that seek to impose their will on their neighbors and their subjects.

BTW from my military service I don't doubt part of the what is stated by this Commander but I dont think it is entirely true either.

The simple fact is, if communist cuba was a threat we would have fixed this problem a long time ago.


[This message has been edited by Alan B (edited April 19, 2000).]
 
When this story first broke in November, I thought the best way to deal with it would be to send a CIA agent to talk to the father when nobody else was around. The agent would tell him that their discussion would not be revealed to anyone other than the President, and the father's wishes would be obeyed: the kid goes back or the kid stays here.

Now that the father is here, with an entourage of 28 "friends," I find it hard to believe that he wouldn't choose to live with his son here in the US--if he were free to make that choice. The very fact that the father's attorney is Craig Gilbert, Clinton's
impeachment attorney, makes me suspicious.
Any friend of Bill is no friend of mine, so... the kid stays.

Dick
 
Maybe the destruction of the Berlin Wall has erased our corporate memory. As a refresher, in the past, we considered it heroic that East Germans would risk their lives to cross into the freedom of West Germany. Today, a Mother risks her life to escape the tyranny of Castro and give her son the gift of life in a relatively free Republic. Now jaded Americans are too ready to throw the little dude back into the arms of a Communist State. Klinton's chief mouthpiece in the impeachment debacle, is acting as the Father/Castro's legal counsel. Does this not ring a bell as to what is right and wrong? Terminate Tyranny.
 
Alan B

The point of posting that "opinion" piece was that it is the learned opinion of someone I know and respect, but more to the point, someone who has been to Cuba multiple times to see for himself, has followed this story from the inside since the beginning, and who has a unique perspective as an ex-CIA "Cold Warrior". In short, he knows more about it than anyone here getting their information second, third, or fourth hand.

re:

Food is still rationed in Cuba.
It's rationed because of shortages. Many of those shortages would disappear if trade sanctions were lifted, is my understanding.

Cuba is still a communist country which was just condemned by the UN for Human rights abuses.
So too has China been condemned, along with other countries with which we have relations, trade and otherwise. In we were to establish new relations with cuba, we could have a far greater positive influence on them than we have now, potentially.

The 1965 United States law granting asylum to any Cuban who gets here as asks for it.
You don't think this has any connection to the tremendous influence Cuban-Americans have politically?

For me, the bottom line is this: the boy should be with his father, and not his distant relatives driven by a political agenda. If the father wanted to stay here, fine, let the boy stay with him here. Here, there, wherever... the mother is dead and the father loves him and wants him. End of story.

imo.
------

[This message has been edited by Covert Mission (edited April 19, 2000).]
 
One day, The USCONGRESSJUGGERTHINGETC will make enough laws about illegal emigration where this type of thing will never clog up our bandwaves again. I would resolve that "It shall be unlawfull for a child to illegally enter the borders of "???USA" without first submitting papers to the State Department requesting political assylum.
Bill and Janet need a "Red Herring"
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Covert Mission: ... the bottom line is this: the boy should be with his father, and not his distant relatives ... the mother is dead and the father loves him and wants him. End of story.[/quote]The father left the mother, remarried and had nothing to do with the boy for the past couple of years -- sounds like fatherly love to me, but wait, there's more. The father came to this country to get his son back but he won't go to Miami to see the child because he fears for his safety. What a sharp contrast to the mother, who risked her life and lost her life, just so that she could bring her son to a better life.

And if Cuba under Castro isn't such a bad place to live then why are hundreds (or maybe thousands) of Cubans willing to risk their lives every year trying to escape in poorly made rafts?

It would really be an ironic & cruel twist of fate for the boy to have survived so much (the ocean, the loss of his mother, deadly sharks, etc.) in order to make it to freedom just to be sent back!
 
What a bunch of dark minds here. Most of you don't know diddley squat about Cuba or Cubans, Miami, and make your opinions that reak of racism at it's best. From someone that knows firsthand what Cuba's about. If I was living in Cuba, I would sacrifice not seeing my children again if I know they are going to live free. The parents of 14,000 children did just that. They had the courage to send their children off to the USA to live with strangers, and the Catholic church, in the hope of reuniting someday. Most did. This was called Peter Pan. For those of you that think that things are normal in Cuba or that the embargo is why Castro jails four people for writing a paper that states "The Homeland Belongs To Us All" and that there is no repression in Cuba, I'll tell you that you have to be a little dizzy, and are probably ignorant of the facts. Best of luck....Cag
 
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