Effective Range

  • Thread starter Thread starter PreserveFreedom
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"Energy is the difference. "

That's what I said.

"And I'm sure the heavier round will have a tighter group."

I think that if all parameters are the same, that this will be incorrect. An object is not more accurate just because of weight. If you mean a tighter group in wind, I still disagree. Assuming that the wind is a constant, then once the windage correction is dialed in, there's no reason for both groups not to be equally sized.

Believe me, I am a non-.223 fan. However, I've been studying it, and except for the energy part, it ain't too bad at long range. It will make VERY accurate hits if the launching platform is up to it...now whether the bullet will bounce off the target or not, that's a different story.
 
I don't have access to a 223 bolt action so I don't know for sure. I guess you didn't see my earlier question Steve. Did you ever try those lighter 125gr bullets out of your M1A?
 
No, I didn't. In fact, I don't even own that rifle anymore. It went back to Springfield for major repair, and I woulnd up gettin a different rifle. This one's a National Match. It's been in my safe for three months and I haven't even shot it. I've been focusing on my AR for Highpower. After my testing with my own AR and other's testing, including John Feamster, a writer for Precision Shooting Magazine and author of "Black Magic, the Ultra Accurate AR-15", I don't believe that a bolt .223 is necessary...a good AR is all that's necessary for this.

BTW, I'm quite new to Quickload, and I'm a little swamped with all the data. so far, with a .223 80 Gr HPBT going 2700 fps, I'm getting 22" of deflection at 300 yards (it doesn't go higher than that, unfortunately) and a full value crosswind of 20 Mph. With the .308 168gr HPBT going 2700 fps, I'm getting 15.5" of deflection at the same spot. I really wish it would go over 300 yds, as I believe we'd see each bullet being blown close to 35-40". Now remember, I am not trying to say the .308 is "like" the .223 i any way...but I'm showing that the .308 moves more than most folks think.

Energy is the real tell-tale sign, as far as effectiveness, though. The .223 gives 1760 ft-lbs of energy at 300 yds at 2145 fps, while the .223 gives a measly 600 ft-lbs at 1851 fps. This goes along with what we were already saying.

You may hit the target perfectly with the .223, but will it go into it?


Better yet, let's go full circle and ask a more original question...

How effective is effective?
 
I have been downrange "pulling butts" and will promise you that at 500 yards a 223 has plenty of energy. it is still supersonic at that distance.
i was 10 for 10 at the 500 every year i spent in my beloved Corps and if you can hit the target w/ a 223 your going to do it some major damage.
w/ iron sights the target is half the width of the front sight at 500 and heartbeat will change point of impact.
you are all putting the cart before the horse. and for whoever said that past 500 was lobbbing a 223...
and that they wouldnt worry much about being hit past that distance...
a 62 gr M855 will penetrate the USGI issue Kevlar helmet at 600 meters, so what are you made of?
 
"a 62 gr M855 will penetrate the USGI issue Kevlar helmet at 600 meters, so what are you made of?"

Damn, I didn't know that. Are the helmets serving more of a flak jacket roll in deflecting shrapnel or are the more like a construction helmet to keep you for bumping your noggin or having things dropped on your head, falling ect... Will the .223 still tumble at that distance on a torso hit? Not that having a .223 sized hole poked through you is a good thing but if it no longer tumbles then the .30 moving at a faster rate is going to cause more trauma as it pokes its hole. I guess though that my definition (might not be correct) of a sniper rifle is a rifle that can hit an area the size of a spread hand at 600 yards. In that case the .223 would be viable. Then again you have to factor in wind and other conditions. What about penetrating barriers like glass or a vehicle? Is this something that snipers do not really consider due to the distances?
 
Guys,

I thought the favorable terminal ballistic tendencies of the 5.56 is the tendency to tumble & fragment, thereby dramatically increasing both the temporary & permanent wound channel.

I also seem to recall, although I could be wrong, that these tendencies are present only at velocities of1600 fps or greater, meaning the primary benefits of the 5.56 round (depending on many variables, such as bbl length) will only be felt at ranges up to 300 yds or less.

Does this seem right to you all?

-dave
 
I'm under the impression Fragmentation usually only occurs at velocities over 2700fps??? But I might be wrong about the numbers. The thing with the M855 is that it has a steel core thats going to punch threw Kevlar. Punching holes in your enemy isn't going to keep them from shooting back at you. At 500yds or more your going to "wound" or "deter" your enemy. There going to die later than sooner. M193 is fully capable of knocking you on your @$$ at closer ranges.
 
I've never fired anything greater than 69gr and I've never hunted with .223. I wonder how effective a 69gr Hollow Point would be at 600yds? It would have the same velocity of a 22LR but might still open up and do some dirty work.
 
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