Effect of FN on Browning?

C

Clevinger

New member
I was making a call to Winchester, and it was kind of striking how Browning and Winchester are essentially the same company now.

I would say, however, that the effect on Winchester by FN has been overwhelmingly positive in my opinion. The new Model 70s are fantastic, assuming you can find one.

Have the FN effects on Browning X-bolts, etc been similar? Any thoughts?
 
No, FN hasn't always owned Browning.

Browning firearms have resisted the trend toward declining production quality & cheaper production methods that one or two other companies have displayed in recent years.

I don't think that's because of FN ownership, just Browning management ensuring their manufacturers stick to certain quality levels commensurate with the Browning name & image.
Denis
 
Originally Browning was too small of a company to mass produce firearms, so they have always been tied together.
Click to expand...

I thought Browning was independent of them for a long time. Forgive my ignorance if so. :confused:
 
Wow, just looked, and didn't realize the FN/Browning relationship went back so far.

20% ownership in the 1950s and 90% ownership by the late 1970s.

I assumed, ignorantly, that they were scooped up more recently, like Winchester.
 
Winchester has gone broke several times since Olin sold the company (Olin still retains the licensing). With the manufacturing rights to several Winchester models now being licensed to FNH and administered by another of their subsidiaries (Browning), nothing but good has come from it.

Browning was primarily an inventor and seller of licenses. They've never had factory. In the early days they had a gunshop, machine shop. For most of their history their products have been licensed to others, most notably Colt and Winchester as well as Remington, FNH and Miroku.

FN was a bicycle maker and nearly broke when Browning approached them about making his designs.

see: John M. Browning: American Gun Maker by John Browning and Curt Gentry. This is a definitive biography and history of the maker and the company that bares his name by one of his heirs.

My family and the Browning's go back a few years. Here is a rifle John M's father (Jonathan), made for my grandmother's grandfather in the 1840's...

 
Maybe I said it wrong but Belgium Brownings have always been produced by FN. Guns produced by colt, Remington and others were colt or Remington's, they might have been a browning licensed gun but the bore the name of the manufacture.
 
Trigger - VERY cool gun and looks to be in fantastic shape! Being a big Browning fan, I would love to see more pictures of it. Any idea what it's worth?
 
Freak,

The original J.Browning rifles come up from time to time at auction and it depends a lot on condition and features. Browning Sr. was also an inventor and his multi-chamber guns are the most sought after and can bring 5 figures at auction.

His most well known guns are the Mountain Rifles, and the Browning Arms Company marketed a line of reproductions some years ago.

What's it worth? It was delivered to my Grandmother's Grandfather in the winter of 1844-5 and has been well documented during the 170 years it's been in my family. I am the 4th owner. I suppose if I make it to the nursing home I'll be receptive to trading it for a 5th of Jack, some viagra and a couple of hookers. Get back to me in about 30 years.

As with many smiths of the time, the rifles were hand made and no two were exactly alike. Many, such as this one, were custom ordered with features unique to the customers' needs and tastes.

This rifle is .54 caliber, a very popular round for taking the larger game encountered on the plains and in the mountains of America's 1840's frontier and was produced by Browning in his shop in Nauvoo, IL (which is now a museum). As he completed each component he placed his mark. He produced all the components except the lock which was acquired from another smith who specialized in making and selling only high quality back locks -- a common practice during the period. A back lock was high technology of the period, and fairly expensive and complex to produce.

As you can see, the rifle has not been cleaned or restored. His signature is visible, but mostly obscured by rust, forward of the nipple on the top flat of the barrel.






 
Very nice, Trigger! Thanks for the pictures. What a great heirloom, I hope your heir, when that time comes, appreciates what he has and preserves it in its current condition. Educate him now...

You do have a safe, right? (Talk about the ultimate safe gun!)
 
Thanks for posting the pictures and the history of the gun. Simply a remarkable looking rifle and I imagine it was absolutely stunning when new with all the metal inlays it has when your great-great grandfather took possession of it. Truly an heirloom to be proud of!
 
Winchester would have faded into the dust if not for J.M.Browning period.He sold his ideas mostly to Winchester until the A5 then he started Browning FA. He did have a small shop and built non Winchester guns.He refused to sell the A5 rights to Winchester.It was the A5 that brought Browning FA into prominence.Browning has always made a excellent gun,no entry level quality guns just well thought out and well executed ideas.
 
That Browning mountain rifle was also high tech in that it was percussion. If delivered in 1844 it was at the beginning of the percussion cap era. Of course once the cap was developed it led quickly to cartridges and autoloading mechanisms soon followed.
 
BigG:
Actually Winchester was offered of the A5 and they refused Browning's terms. Browning for some time had been feeling undervalued by Winchester. Winchester's line, by then was nearly all Browning designs (starting with the Low wall and high wall single shots, all the Winchester lever and slide actions then in production). It could be rightfully said that if not for Browning, Winchester wouldn't have been very successful after their model 1866 - about the last non-Browning design they produced for the next 50 years.

He then took the A5 design to Remington. While waiting in the outer office to see the President of the Company, the President had a heart attack and died. Negotiations were called off and were not to resume.

In 1902 he offered the design to FN, who was already producing a number of Browning designs...

It wouldn't be until the beginning of WW2 that the A5 would be licensed to Remington and produced as the model 11.

Reynolds:
That's an interesting comment. Care to support that?

Since FN has had a partial ownership in Browning since 1958 when it acquired 30%. By 1977 it owned 90% with Miroku, and now owns 100%.

FN does not own Winchester, rather only leases the trademark from Olin. It would be enlightening to know why and how they would cheapen a brand they own so they could elevate a brand they don't own.
 
Trigger, what a wonderful mountain rifle. I had relatives in Navoo IL at the same time. May be a weapon somewhere in the family, I don't know.

I do have some 1840s Mississippi barreled guns in my safe that belonged to my Grandfather. One of them I have pictures of me holding it some 45 years ago.

Man my dad was young then.

I have had a strong love for Browning and Winchester products all my life and there are many in my safe. I even own a Winchester safe and one of there 1950s Axes. I just recently took the axe out of service.

I think the FN lease will do nothing but good for Winchester.

Mel
 
Big G, look at their product lines. Browning is geared toward the mid tier market (where the big profit is at the moment) and Winchester is geared toward the premium market.
Herstal aquired the use of the Winchester name when the aquired US repeating arms.
 
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