Eagle Scout- The Real Story

M

MountainGun44

New member
You are a high school teacher/administrator. Someone tells you that a star student, model citizen, all-around good-guy kid has "weapons" in his car. You call the kid into your office. He says, "Yeah, I have a Boy Scout Pocket Knife in my car." He is an Eagle Scout.

What do you do? (Most educators get a good deal of their job satisfaction out of working with kids like this. They make up for all of the rest of the punks and deadbeat parents. This is a kid who you will always remember as one of the good ones.)
So...you sit him down and say,"As silly as it may sound, you have violated a rule which has SERIOUS consequences. I want you to take your knife, your axe, and your cell phone home RIGHT NOW. Don't ever put me in the position of having to hold you responsible for breaking rules which we take VERY SERIOUSLY. You will be writing an essay for me: Why it is important to follow rules. Now get out of here! "

or

You have something against kids like him. His open Christianity bothers you... or maybe it is just the fact that you were never more than mediocre when you were in high school. You always resented goody-two-shoes like him. You barely got into a local college. His unlimited potential really bothers you. You resent him. You have much more sympathy for the thugs and gangstas at the school. You feel superior to them. You can handle that. You are going to show this kid that he is no better than you or anybody else.

Is this the real story? What other reason can you imagine for not giving this kid the benefit of the doubt?
 
What would I *personally* do?

Remind the kid to be safe. No lectures, no essays, none of that "the rules are silly but we must follow them" hogwash.

Somehow I don't think I'm cut out for a career in education (except for maybe teaching firearms handling at The Hayward-Fitzpatrick School Of Self-Reliance).
 
Ummm,

How about, you'll lose your job if you don't follow the rules?

Zero tolerence means ZERO TOLERANCE. The teachers and principals are just as bound by it (or more so) as the students.

To think about it another way, how many of your coworkers would you get yourself fired for?
 
Beaurocrats love this "zero tolerance" nonsense. It justifies being an idiot. The mentality of too many of our Civil Servants and Public Administration types is to get through the day doing as little work as possible, taking as little responsibility as possible, and making as few decisions as possible. Makes sense for them considering that promotion is based on seniority, not merit. That's why Privatization of public institutions such as Education is such a great idea. Not that it's likely to happen.
 
Coinneach,

You'd "remind him to be safe?"

Those implements of mass destruction, the dreaded pocketknife and hatchet, were locked securely in the trunk of his car. Based on what we know about this kid, including the fact that he gives lectures to junior scouts, suggests he already has a good grasp on "safety."

I'd commend him for being a good leader to other scouts and buy him lunch. I doubt I'd "remind him to be safe."

Please don't take this as a flame, its just that too often "we" get in the habit of trying to appease the "politically correct" bunch by hiding who/what we are. Its high time we challenge blatant stupidity on all levels and forget about trying to appease the idiots who come up with crap like "zero tolerance."

I doubt it will happen in this case, but that's what I would do.
 
The kid got off easy. Just think if the authorities had realized that the kid had enough incendiary material in his car's gas tank to make DOZENS of Molotov cocktails!

More and more, every day in every way, I'm becoming convinced that the inmates are running the asylum.
 
Danger Dave:

"To think about it another way, how many of your coworkers would you get yourself fired for?"

Well I've never been fired, but once I quit a job for a coworker. The owner told her to put out or get out. She took the get out. As she was cleaning her desk out, I asked her what was wrong. She told me what had happened. I walked into the owners office and asked him if this was true. He told me yea, so what? I told him he was a no good SOB and that he can include me in the get out.

Ended up that three other employees walked out with us that day. I simply refuse to work for a person like that.




------------------
Richard

The debate is not about guns,
but rather who has the ultimate power to rule,
the People or Government.
RKBA!
 
I thought 0 tolerance meant that you can't the weapons on your person. In the trunk of his car is a completely different issue. On top of it call, a pocketknife and an axes are hardly anything to get excited about. The lunch lady in the caferteria probably has a bigger knife. Just a thought.

------------------
It ain't mah fault. did I do dat?
http://yellowman.virtualave.net/
 
HankB-

Molotov Cocktails are just the beginning...

What about the spare tire that could be used to "necklace" someone. (You put the tire around someone and light it on fire- popular in South Africa an Haiti)What about the blunt instruments (tire jack and lugnut wrench) that could bludgeon people to death? What about the car itself? 3000 POUNDS OF ROLLING, SMOKE BELCHING DEATH! A 12 volt car battery can be used with jumper cables to torture and kill! The jagged edge of a broken headlight? A hubcap? Tanya Harding turned one into a weapon. A license plate thrown like a boomerang?

This kid needs to be locked up!

THE PROBLEM: SOME IDIOTS THINK THAT THE BEST WAY TO DEAL WITH CRIME IS TO PUNISH ANYONE WHO *MIGHT* DO SOMETHING WRONG. THAT MAKES ALL OF US CRIMINALS. THAT GIVES THE IDIOTS MORE POWER OVER US.

[This message has been edited by MountainGun44 (edited May 24, 2000).]
 
Mountain, the part about him being outspoken in his faith did not escape me, although it will surely be overlooked as a possible explanation by the media.

Tolerance - the belief that we should tolerate every kind of person, lifestyle, and belief system, except the person whose belief system doesn't tolerate yours. In other words, it's okay to not tolerate the intolerant, as long as you tolerate those that tolerate you. :confused:
 
Zero Tolerance is what's bringing Court cases such as where a School Admin type(s) have taken a student (read child) who submitted a report of his greatest horror, and was wrongfully detained for it. And while detained in a juvenile facility he was beaten by his 'peers'.

Zero Tolerance has brought us Court cases where a student (read child) found live ammunition left by errant and out of control police. The child picks up the ammo, and brings it to school. The student is then summarily dismissed, where no fault has been assigned to the responsible party.

Zero Tolerance has brought you situations where one day a 6 yo student threatens another student, and the next day carries out the threat with a stolen gun taken from a crack house he lives in, while supposedly uinder the auspices of the State (Dept of Child Services, or other suck ilk).

Zero Tolerance is a message to the citizens of the community that Freedom has been, and is being denied.
The message is that Liberty is being kicked off the premises.

School employees have to try to remember that they in fact work for the tax-payers, not the other way around. And that one day the students will be those tax-payers as well.

How do you, in good conscience look a good student in the eye, and tell them that they're the problem with this country. Simply because they "might" have a knife in their car?

BTW, are we ever going to find out who had the ax to grind with this kid :rolleyes:

I think we ought to contact the kid and parents and lend support, recruit them to the ranks. Surely they know firsthand what we've been saying all along.


Best Regards,
Don

------------------
The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms;
History shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler
 
Zero Tolerance? Bah... fire me, i'll make millions in my law suit.

[Me]"Hey Jonny, i know you have your Scouting stuff in your car. Please make sure they stay there. Oh and bye the way, thank you for being a model student for the younger kids to look up to."

[Jonny Eagle Scout]"Yes sir, Mr. USP"

The administration can take their cell phone ban and shove it up their collective arses. My kids will have cell phones for emergencies. They will have my permission to carry them concealed or open everywhere they go. They will not have my permission to chat idlly to their truant friends while at school.

~USP
 
How about "Whatever is in a kid's car is NONE of the school's business unless and until probable cause exists to search it", meaning that (a) there is evidence of a CRIME committed, not just violation of a contraband policy, and (b) there is reason to believe evidence of the crime is in the vehicle. Without this, if the kid doesn't bring it INSIDE the school, then there should be no searches, and what the kid has in the car is his business and no one else's.
 
My sympathy is with the Eagle Scout. He was set up, whatever the reason and "zero tolerance" is a system to serve administrators who do not have the requisites to make a decision.
Having said that, Did his parents protest the policy when it was made? Were they aware of it? Was the Eagle aware of the policy?
And for the sake of impartiality, Would you imagine that one or two teachers might have a cell phone in their cars? And as someone has already mentioned, most people could do more damage with a lug wrench than with a broken-handled hatchet. The whole thing SMELLS.
 
While we're on the subject of zero tolerance; what ever happened to the Texas
teacher who shot herself to protest lack
of security at her school?

Last I heard she was to undergo mental
evaluation.


That was weeks ago. Any charges against her
for the obvious zero tolerance infractions?

[This message has been edited by Sport (edited May 24, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by USP45:
Zero Tolerance? Bah... fire me, i'll make millions in my law suit.

.......
The administration can take their cell phone ban and shove it up their collective arses. My kids will have cell phones for emergencies. They will have my permission to carry them concealed or open everywhere they go. They will not have my permission to chat idlly to their truant friends while at school. (clipped)
~USP[/quote]

.........
AHA!! CCP (Concealed Carry Phone) PERMIT. (Rules different in every locale.)

Now - doesn't that just grab you?

AB

------------------
2nd AMENdment - "So Be It."

[This message has been edited by andyb (edited May 24, 2000).]
 
F*#$&( Zero Tolerance. Zero Tolerance is a nicer way to say, infringe on people's rights without due process. Instead of using common sense and determining if someone actually did something wrong, zero tolerance policies allow the most moronic in society to dictate that one thing or another is bad PERIOD. If someone has this "bad thing" or does that "bad thing" they should be punished without any recourse, without due process. Your due process is being punished.

So to all those who support Zero Tolerance, take a flying leap.

Rant mode off!
 
I think MountainGun44 touched on a very important point when he mentioned how the school admins probably resent this kid.

How often do guidance counselors suggest a kid take a challenging class, or apply to MIT or Stanford? Instead, we get, "XYZ State Univ. is a Great Value!"

How many school administrators and principles recognize the kind of excellence that makes somone succeed throughout their life, instead of just who is captain of the football team?

You've got to realize the kind of people who gravitate towards these positions.

-z
 
The biggest question of all . Where was the proof of this alleged infraction ? Did the rat , I mean informer , I mean snitch , Oh hell whatever , prove that this stuff was there ? X-Ray vision ? If the Principal wanted to he could have asked how the kid knew . I know for a fact that the English teacher is carrying the janitors baby . This violates the fraternization policy . " Hit the stirrups lady . Just doing my job .Gotta check EVERY report ."
I don't know how many Special Ops we got here but this will bring back memories . Remember how we were taught to fold the newspaper to break someones neck ? I showed that to people years ago and they were flabbergasted . I just told them " My Uncle Sam showed me that ." Soooooo do we ban newspapers ? Pen in the eye is cool also but not deadly unless you get good penetration .
It's not what you got but what you do with it . I have " Zero Tolerance " for " Zero Tolerance ."

------------------
TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA
 
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