EAA Windicator problem

N

Nez

Inactive
Hey everyone, new to the forum here and I have some questions about some problems I have been having with an .357 EAA Windicator I recently purchased as my first handgun. I got it as like new in box and after a look over I concluded that it had never been fired. I liked the grip and at a price of 240$ it seemed reasonable for a starter revolver. However I am now having second thoughts. I put about 100 .38 special rounds down range (125 gr TMJ, HPR brand) and about 20 magtech guardian gold 357 rounds. The gun worked fine at first, I was actually pleasantly surprised and it seemed pretty accurate. Now the cylinder is jamming after I shoot it 2 or 3 times, regardless of if I am using single or double action. I thoroughly cleaned it and gave it a looking over and could see nothing wrong with it so I took it out today to see if cleaning it resolved the problem but it is still jamming. The cylinder can still be released and put back but it still doesn't want to rotate after a few rounds have been fired. If anyone has any suggestions on to why this may be happening I would love to hear everyone advice. This is my first handgun but I own several rifles and shotguns and I know how to properly clean a firearm, I just cant figure out whats wrong with the darn thing.
 
A little more info is needed.
The cylinder does rotate and work properly for a couple of rounds, and then doesn't?
When?
Right after the cylinder is opened and then closed again?

Almost forgot to mention,
On revolvers, the trigger has to be released completely with every shot, or the cylinder will not rotate.
If the trigger is only released to what would feel like the reset position on a semi-auto, that's not enough to allow for cylinder rotation.
Just a thought.
 
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Ok so I load the revolver, shoot it a few times while fully pressing the trigger and it shoots fine but sometimes when I squeeze the trigger the cylinder tries to rotate to the next round but it stops, no matter how much force I put on the trigger or hammer it will not rotate to the next round. It is getting caught up on something I would assume since it is completely clean and lubed. I have to release the cylinder and put it back in to get it to work again. Idk if the problem is specific to this model or it is just a general revolver malfunction. The cylinder always opens and when I close it again it works fine for a few more rounds but then it gets caught up again. There is a reasonable amount of force blocking it from rotating and blocking the hammer and trigger from being moved more than a small amount. Also it does not get stuck when dry firing if that helps at all.
 
The fact that it operated ok when dry firing suggests the problem might be associated with the ammo dragging on the back of the frame.
This could be caused by a wobbly cylinder or improperly machined chambers.
Or improperly made ammo, that's not going all the way into the chambers, for one reason or another.
Try this:
With empty cases inserted fully in the chambers, hold the gun up to a bright light and see if the cylinder rotates correctly.
Check the clearance both in front, at the barrel, and the back, at the frame recoil shield, when rotated by hand.
The hammer will have to be partially cocked, so that the cylinder lock is recessed back into the bottom of the frame and frees up the cylinder, so it will rotate for this.
Hence the use of empty cases.
 
Have you checked the barrel-cylinder gap? I have never heard of a cylinder binding up after only 2-3 rounds, but I have known one to bind after a cylinder full because the gap is too small and when the gun is fired the cylinder heats up and expands lengthwise, binding against the forcing cone. Ideal b-c gap is about .007"' try closing the cylinder with a piece of printer paper (.0035") between the cylinder and the barrel; it the cylinder won't close a small b-c gap is the problem.

A gunsmith with the proper tool can relieve a bit off the forcing cone and solve the problem. I do not recommend trying to do that work with a file, though it has been done.

Jim
 
+1 what James K said. I've also seen a bent crane do that- supposedly from flicking the cylinder closed Hollywood style by quickly flicking the wrist to the right.
 
To me, it sounds like the primers in the mag. ammo my be 'flowing' back and causing the drag. If this happens again, open the cylinder and look at the fired primers. If the cylinder is hard to open, and a primer shows a drag mark, then your ammo may be too hot.

OP< I just re-read your post. I have seen Magtec ammo that did not have enough crimp on the bullets. As the owner shot, the later rounds had the bullets creep out until the cylinder would not rotate. I measured some of the ammo, and some of the .38's were longer than the OAL for .357!
This could easily be your problem.
 
We would only be guessing at this point with your description to go on, but the first place I would suspect would be under the extractor. Burned powder can collect under there and hold the plate back far enough to rub the recoil shield. Try cleaning under there with a toothbrush or similar tool and see if that makes a difference. Pretty common thing to happen...
 
I did the paper test and paper easily fits in the gap between the cylinder and forcing cone, when I hold it up to light I can see the gap and the cylinder and forcing cone appear to line up perfectly parallel. As far as doing the "hollywood flick" I did that one time when I first got it until reading online that it was really bad and the gun has a thick steel frame so I do not think I could have damaged it. The gun was completely clean when I fired this and it happened so I know its not because the extractor was dirty. Everything else on the gun appears to be lined up and I was going to test fire it again today but I did not have time after work. I will post an update tomorrow.
 
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Nez, it's not the frame, but the part the cylinder rides on (the crane in a S&W, Yoke in a Colt), that can be bent , even if you flick it just once.

When you shoot it, if it jams, slow down and look at all the areas mentioned - is the ammo the same length, or has the bullet slipped forward; do the primers show signs of dragging on the recoil shield; is there anything, even a single grain of unburned powder, under the extractor star; etc. ?

And try it with some other ammo, other than Magtech.
 
Ok so I put 50 (FMJ) more rounds through it today (it was REALLY clean) and here is what happened. It appears that the jamming is completely random, I got two cylinders off clean with no jams, one jammed twice. Another one jammed on the last bullet and another one jammed after the first bullet (these are not listed in order, its random). The hammer and trigger are both "stuck" and cannot be moved unless I release pressure and pull the trigger again (only works sometimes) or release the cylinder and put it back in. I dry fired a lot with empty rounds and it does not jam at all. I have ruled out cylinder gap problems, even with buildup there is still a visible gap and I keep it squeaky clean. Also the bullets are not dragging anywhere. The cylinder release does function, as in the cylinder is not stuck in the frame and the crane looks fine and lines up. I tried to look for obvious problems but could not see any, everything seemed to look normal even when jammed so I am thinking maybe I just got a defective gun and one of the internal mechanisms is broken or damaged, which is strange because I feel like it would jam when dry firing too if this was the case. I basically have no idea what to do at this point other than take it to a gunsmith and spend money I don't have.
 
I forgot to mention that the rounds I was using were .38 special not .357, which the gun should have no problems handling. Even when hot the cylinder still cleared the gap.
 
The hammer and trigger are both "stuck" and cannot be moved unless I release pressure and pull the trigger again (only works sometimes) or release the cylinder and put it back in.
Click to expand...
There might be a clue here.
What do you mean, exactly, by "unless I release pressure" on the trigger?
Are you keeping pressure on the trigger between shots?
Remember, the trigger on revolvers has to be fully released so the cylinder can turn.
Even a little pressure on the trigger, after firing a round, can prevent the internals from resetting and the cylinder from turning, on some revolvers.
It's also possible the trigger return spring is weak and the effect is the same.
To check, pull the trigger fully back, causing the gun to dry fire.
If you push forward on the trigger after fully releasing it, does it move forward some more?
A reason it doesn't act up when dry firing is maybe, since you're not actually trying to hit a target, you may be operating it more robustly than when shooting it, over coming a weak spring.
Pressing the trigger slowly, (staging the trigger), trying to be more accurate may aggravate the problem.
Trying to diagnose stuff long distance is a real challenge.
But don't give up, it's solvable.
 
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I am definitely fully releasing the trigger between shots, which is why this is such an interesting problem. I just dry fired it and the trigger does not move forward more if I push on it after a shot. Also idk if it helps but I almost always cock it before each shot since the trigger is rough and the pull is heavy but regardless of if I don't cock it it can still get stuck. I just cleaned it up and down again, taking it apart this time (who knows maybe something just needed to be moved a little) and I will shoot again tomorrow and post the results.
 
Just as a passing note, the Windicator was/is also known as the Arminus HW, imported by F.I.E. back in the 1980s.
While they may chamber .357s, they were probably designed for standard .38s.
Check out the youtube channel reviews for more info.
It might be suitable for range practice, with low power rounds, but maybe not anything more.
 
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It is chambered in .357, it says it on the barrel and the cylinder and online. I have read reviews of people putting 1000+ .357 rounds through it no problems and I have shot hardly and out of it. The .38 special windicators had a bad rep for being made out of a crummy alloy but the .357 ones are made out of steel, at least that's what is listed online and judging by how heavy and durable it appears I have to agree.
 
It's easy enough to see if it's all steel - just use a magnet.
Hopefully you are right and it's good for some .357 range time.
Nothing wrong with good ole' plain vanilla .38s though.
 
It dry fires fine but doesn't want to rotate with ammo? I'm not a gunsmith or anything, but that suggests to me that maybe the cylinder has some play in it and is moving to far back? Maybe the rounds are getting pushed against the frame? Perhaps someone with some real experience in this can comment, but that was just my first suspicions when you said it dry fired fine. I could be COMPLETELY wrong and have not one shred of experience that qualifies me to say one way or another.
 
So heres an update on the problem now that I have had some time to go shoot. I put 50 .38 spec and 50 .357 mag through it and to my surprise it only jammed with the 38 special ammo. It jammed less, only 3 times in 50 rounds but each time it jammed I observed all the parts and the specific chamber in the cylinder to confirm that it is random and not only happening on one of the chambers. When it jams there is plenty clearance between the front of the cylinder and the forcing cone and the bullets are not dragging on the recoil shield and are otherwise securely in place. The trigger and hammer have very little play when it jams, a few mm's of movement before they stop and it will not unjam until I release the cylinder and put it back in, at which point it works fine. The cylinder still rotates fine when dry firing or with empty rounds. Like I mention previously there are no visible obstructions or problems with the cylinder or gun. I am happy that it jammed significantly less this time than previously but 3 jams in 50 rounds is still way too high for a revolver. It seems strange that it did not jam with 357 but did with 38 special. At this point I think I have really exhausted all options other than something defective internally. I would still like to hear suggestions if anyone has any.
 
Have you contacted EAA with warranty concerns? Their reputation for customer service... Ummmm, well, it's pretty awful. But at least the phone call will be free. (or cheap.) Seems like the place to start.
 
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