Dumb Laws - F&G this time in CA

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williamd

New member
The great pink state of CA has a newly designated Condor area (large) in which only NO LEAD bullets can be used to take big game - deer and bear primarily. Not just FMJ but NO LEAD at all. Seems a condor died of lead poisoning ... from some source. So, naturally the tree huggers saw a way to protect condors (I have no issue with protecting condors) and impact hunting/shooting at the same time. How wonderful! Was in a F&G office this week and in discussing this new area, which F&G field types opposed I am told, learned that I can still use my 22rf with lead for rabbits/squirrels as well as lead in my quail/chuker gun!!!! Guess those big condors only pick up large calibre rounds???
 
It's just the old death of a thousand cuts. Lead shot went first. Now lead centerfire. Of course the military are also dropping lead based FMJ. The condors must have a problem with latex poisoning as well because the largest gun shop in the area tells me that rubber shot is now illegal.
 
Leave it to CA. Why do condors like lead? It's not really shiny, so it shouldn't make it curious. I've never put a lead bullet in my mouth so it doesn't taste good.... of course this brings into perspective that they are just animals, and some dogs eat their own poop, and that isn't shiny and I'm no dog, but I don't think it tastes good either. Then again I've never tasted crap, so I guess I don't really know what it tastes like. So I guess condors aren't that dumb. That condor probably had a lead bullet in its ass, by the way. So the bullet did its job eventually, and I guess that's what the dirty liberals are so mad about.
 
Worth Repeating

I've said it before and I'm going to say it again, just wait until the liberals in California connect the burning of gunpowder to global warming. Then the ammo has to be powder free too.
 
It is just anti-gun nonsense. Buzzards eat the same stuff as the condors, but there is no shortage of buzzards.

The condors today are the last remnant of a species that evolved for a time when there was plenty of large dead things to be eaten. This overspecialization is what has made them scarce and will finally kill them off.
 
...in which only NO LEAD bullets can be used to take big game - deer and bear primarily. Not just FMJ but NO LEAD at all.
Click to expand...

It even goes further. You can NOT even be in posession of lead ammo when hunting in the Condor area. So...If you carry a side arm for SD when hunting it should have all Copper too.my
 
What worries me is the housing situation in CA will run out mass quanities to great states like TX and bring their attitudes & ideas. We already see an influx here seeking affordable housing and work.

Can't blame them for coming but I hope they learn our culture here.
 
Seeking information

I've been looking into this condor/lead issue and am looking for a little more info.

Primarily, I'm trying to figure out the downside of having to use copper bullets in certain areas. (I'm not trying to start a fight, so don't jump all over me...but I don't quite buy the "liberal California anti-gun" notion, as there's a lot of hard core hunters, including scientists, who support the notion.)

Since the lead poisoning evidence is very strong (you can look that up all over the place), I'm most interested in the downside of copper bullets, from the hunter's point of view. I did find (PDF file at: http://www.ventanaws.org/pdf/species_condor_lead/AmmoSurveyFinalReport060223_001.pdf) an interesting study sponsored by Arizona Game and Fish of actual deer hunters who were given copper bullets for free to use for the season. Take a look if you're interested.

Anyway, I'd be interested in compiling a list of the upsides/downsides of having to use copper bullets in the field, from the hunter's point of view.

Any information would be welcome. Thanks.

(By the way, I'm in Wyoming, so don't really have a dog in this hunt. But I'm interested in getting to the bottom of this.)
 
No argument that something other then lead will work. I play with soem no-lead Barnes. More expensive. Look at the waterfowl issue, works but costly. But, justsanother chip in the hunting armor for no good reason. Especially since it does not apply to small game and birds in the same area. Nor, to the huge military area in/near its boundary.
 
same reaction to lead shotgun pellets

Sounds like the same BS arguments that filled the country when the Feds outlawed lead shot for migratory bird hunting. Lots of crying on how the steel shot would ruin shotguns and how shooting steel pellets would never be as accurate for hunting ducks. And here we are years latter and duck hunters still spend hours in the blinds hoping for a full bag day.

I'm sure the bullet manufactures will provide a solution to no lead bullets at just a slightly higher cost and profit margin.
 
How does lead in dead amimals manage to kill condors while not harming buzzards who eat exactly the same thing? Have they been using special 'smart lead' in Califoria?
 
Obxned:

They do die from lead poisoning too. They are not at all scarce, however, like condors, which are carefully and individually monitored.

Now, I'm still curious: what is the downside (or upside, for that matter) of copper bullets?
 
It even goes further. You can NOT even be in posession of lead ammo when hunting in the Condor area. So...If you carry a side arm for SD when hunting it should have all Copper too
Click to expand...

How long before they make up a reason to ban copper bullets, do ya think?
 
Well, since no one made up this reason, I don't know.

What is the downside of copper bullets? I'm trying to gather that information, as I'm curious. As I said above, it doesn't affect me personally as I'm in Wyoming and don't hunt where condors live.
 
Hkmp5sd:

So, that's the only downside to using copper bullets in the field? That they cost a little more?

That's the first, and only, downside I've heard, so maybe that's all there is.

Thanks.
 
A simple analysis of the way CA works will tell you that this is nothing more than another way to kick hunting out of CA. If you honestly think this is about the well being with condors then I have a fabulous bridge I'll gladly sell you.
 
I've eaten dove, quail, and deer shot with lead my whole life and not one iota of concern. Ditto for everone I knew. Lead poisoning associated with shooting has much more to do with lead based primers and lead dust in indoor ranges. I doubt very seriously that a single human being has ever had a problem with eating game they shot--if anyone claims to I'd say they're greatly exaggerating their abilities.
 
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