Dug relic loose cylinders

MJN77 I see your point, that's the only way around a timing problem.....LOL I own both a Walker and a First Model Dragoon, both replicas and they don't have removable ratchets. I've never disassembled a Paterson replica and wasn't aware of that feature. That's how they got around the teeth machining problem in that early day....:eek:
 
MJN77 I see your point, that's the only way around a timing problem.....LOL I own both a Walker and a First Model Dragoon, both replicas and they don't have removable ratchets. I've never disassembled a Paterson replica and wasn't aware of that feature. That's how they got around the teeth machining problem in that early day....
Click to expand...

That's what I was getting at in the other thread. I have seen quite a few Paterson revolvers with spare cylinders, but very few later models. Here is a better pic of a Paterson cylinder. Notice the absence of "teeth" on the spare?

patersonpair.jpg
 
MJN77 GO to the VMI museum in Lexington, Va. They have the darndest collection of cased and loose Paterson pistols and rifles I've ever heard of. Absolutely spectacular. Here are a couple of cell phone pictures, there are several hundred unique arms in this collection. The VMI grad travelled. Every town he travelled to he looked for gun ads. He bought this collection over a 40 year period, and donated it to the Cadet Museum, who has just become able to display it publicly. I don't think there is another collection of early Colts this large. They have more than I saw in Cody,Wyoming at the Buffalo Bill Center.:D
 
Last edited:
Quote:
as a Native Texan I believe I have to take exception to the statement about the Texas Rangers commonly carrying extra cylinders. The state of Texas literally put Sam Colt on the map, purchasing his Paterson Colt pistols. The No.5 belt pistol is actually known as the Texas pistol. These guns were mass produced but HAND fitted. Even the grips are not interchangable. If Rangers were carrying extra cylinders it was at a much later date. The only mention of cylinders made that I have ever read is Colt's replacement of some Walker Model guns for the Rangers for blown cylinders. The cylinders alone weren't replaced, the whole gun had to go back. The United States Mounted Rifles (Dragoons) also had a couple hundred guns replaced because of blown cylinders, (The Fluck guns). Same thing the whole gun went back. If they were carring extra cylinders that were fitted to each individual gun then why would they have had the guns replaced? The facts don't jive with the tales....IMHO
Click to expand...

True or not, I have read accounts that Rangers ( Jack Hays' men) carried extra Patrson cylinders at the battle of Walker Creek. Robert M. Utley mentions this in his book, Lone Star Justice. The Paterson cylinder was a two piece cylinder. Meaning, that the ratchet (teeth) were removable, and could be placed into another cylinder. I stated in the "other" thread, that most of the original extra cylinders I have seen, were with the Paterson revolvers. I believe this is why. Look at this drawing from VTI's site to see what I mean.
http://www.vtigunparts.com/store/sho...ietta+Paterson
Click to expand...

Utley's books are an enjoying read but white wash the historical record IMHO.

The cylinder ratchet held in the frame and the cylinder is timed to it.
paterson07.jpg


Here's another version of Devil Jack at Enchanted Rock.

Kevin Ladd from Texas Illustrated; Liberty Texas said:
Becoming increasingly agitated, the Comanches regrouped and made another assault on the solitary gunman. Again Hays waited calmly until the leader of the renewed assault reached the crest of the rock. He pulled out his gun, fired off one shot, removed his two revolvers, and fired away with wild abandon at the other attackers. The surveyors by that time had sent the main Indian force into retreat and mounted a charge at the Enchanted Rock. The impending attack sent the remaining Indians into retreat.

The battle of Enchanted Rock, one of the more unusual Indian conflicts of that time period, was history.
Click to expand...


The period books I have read talk about carrying spare revolvers not the cylinders. These revolvers were hand fit and after you ordered a cylinder from back east, maybe get it with in six months it would require hand fitting by a gunsmith. The records of the day do not indicate cylinders being sold as individual items, only on rare occasions and normally with cased sets made for vip's.

Clint was historically correct in Josy Wales, he carried several revolvers. Carrying numerous revolvers is what the records claim to be the standard of the day.
 
That design of the Paterson did nothing to help random cylinder swapping because you still have the problems of indexing the keyway and the locking slots. The only way it might help with random cylinder swapping would be for there to be significant play between the ratchet key and the keyway, which I would think Colt's aim was to reduce to nearly zero.
 
That design of the Paterson did nothing to help random cylinder swapping because you still have the problems of indexing the keyway and the locking slots.
Click to expand...
Don't recall saying it helped random swapping. I said the Paterson was the only gun, that I have read about cylinder swapping with, in a historical context. The Paterson revolvers I have seen with spare cylinders, were custom ordered, from the factory WITH the spares.

Utley's books are an enjoying read but white wash the historical record IMHO
Click to expand...
I agree. I just meant that even he mentioned the extra cylinders.

The cylinder ratchet held in the frame and the cylinder is timed to it.
Click to expand...
I understand this, but it would have been easier to cut a small notch to hold the "teeth", than to fit a one piece cylinder to a gun.

Here's another version of Devil Jack at Enchanted Rock
Click to expand...
I was referring to Walker Creek, when 14 Rangers fought 80-200 (depending on the source) commanche warriors in 1842. I've read accounts that the Rangers that day, were armed with rifles, two Paterson revolvers, and one spare cylinder for each revolver. As I said, true or not, I have read a few accounts that mention to this.

If you couldn't tell from my other posts, I do not believe that "cylinder swapping" was at all common in any era of the 19th century. The Paterson revolvers, are the ONLY historical weapon that I have personally read about using spare cylinders.
 
Last edited:
ah hah someone else sees that

the cylinders were hand fitted to each revolver as i already noted.

for the us army, they dictated what each soldier had, and if it wasn't dictated to be carried YOU weren't issued it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
ah hah someone else sees that

the cylinders were hand fitted to each revolver as i already noted.

for the us army, they dictated what each soldier had, and if it wasnt dictated to be carried YOU DID NOT GET IT
Click to expand...

Look in the other thread that was closed, I stated that a while ago.
 
MJN77 said:
Quote:
ah hah someone else sees that

the cylinders were hand fitted to each revolver as i already noted.

for the us army, they dictated what each soldier had, and if it wasnt dictated to be carried YOU DID NOT GET IT
Click to expand...


Look in the other thread that was closed, I stated that a while ago.
Click to expand...

I saw that, normally here at TFL we can argue with it getting to be personal. I enjoy a debate, you learn things if you keep an open mind, I know I have learned a lot from fellow members.

That Paterson photo you posted is my screen saver. I would love to have that set. I can see the headlines, "Husband murdered by wife with antique revolver husband just purchased":D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top