Dual residency in buying handguns

TomNJVA

New member
Sorry this is so long for my first post, but it is a complicated subject that probably applies to all states and I would like to get some opinions from the good folks here.

I own a house in NJ and spend just over half the year in NJ, so for most purposes NJ is my legal state of residency.

I also own a house in VA and spend most of the spring and summer there (growing vegetables). I go back and forth between the two houses each month as I still need to care for my 94 year old mother in NJ. Since my house in VA is very rural I would like to buy a handgun to keep in the VA house for self-protection while there.

By federal law, a handgun can only be transferred between residents of the same state, but there are different kinds of "residency".

For the purposes of voting, taxes, and driving, you are a resident of the state in which you live at least 183 days per year (>half the year). For the purpose of purchasing a firearm, however, residency is defined by the U.S. Department of Justice, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (BATFE) in their "Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide" (http://www.atf.gov/files/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-4.pdf page 39) as follows:

State of Residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1. A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

Example 3. A, an alien, travels on vacation or on a business trip to State X. Regardless of the length of time A spends in State X, A does not have a State of residence in State X. This is because A does not have a home in State X at which he has resided for at least 90 days.

Example 2 above describes me exactly - I own a home in NJ and I own a home in VA, and I travel back and forth between the two. Therefore according to the BATFE I am a resident of VA when in VA and should be entitled to the same rules and rights as any other VA resident when purchasing a firearm. And since this is a federal definition it should hold true for other states as well.

The VA State Police website lays out the VA state laws regarding firearm purchases and it is silent on the definition of residency, so therefore the federal BATFE definition should prevail. The VA State Police website says one must present a primary ID and a secondary ID to buy a gun. They say: "The primary form of ID shall consist of a valid photo-ID form issued by a governmental agency of the Commonwealth or of the prospective purchaser or transferee’s home state..." They also say: "Federal law prohibits the sale or transfer of a handgun to a nonresident of the state in which the handgun is being purchased." Since I am a resident of VA according to the BATFE, and I have a valid photo NJ driver’s license, I comply with the VA State Police requirements as well as those of the BATFE.

So I should be able to legally buy a handgun in VA with proof of my identity (NJ Drivers’s License) and proof of VA residency (tax and utility bills).

My problem is that the VA FFLs I visited all want to see a Virginia photo ID to sell a handgun - period. I can’t get a VA DL unless I turn in my NJ DL, which I think would make me a resident of VA for all other purposes as well, which I would rather not do at this time.

So, in summary, I am a VA resident, but cannot get a VA photo ID to prove it, and FFLs demand it.

Am I reading these regulations and definitions correctly or am I missing something? Does anyone have any suggestions on how to convince an FFL that it is legal to sell me a handgun?

Tom
 
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A tax bill or any other government-issued document with your Virginia address should suffice:

Licensees may accept a combination of valid government-issued documents to satisfy the identification document requirements of the law. The required valid government-issued photo identification document bearing the name, photograph, and date of birth of transferee may be supplemented by another valid, government-issued document showing the transferee’s residence address. This alternate documentation should be recorded in question 20.b., with issuing authority and type of identification presented. A combination of government-issued documents may be provided. For example, if a U.S. citizen has two States of residence and is trying to buy a handgun in State X, he may provide a driver’s license (showing his name, date of birth, and photograph) issued by State Y and another government-issued document (such as a tax document) from State X showing his residence address

Unless Virginia has its own law on this matter, it sounds like the FFL is either being uncooperative or overly cautious
 
That's a great quote Tom, one I can show to an FFL. Do you have a link to the source so I can print it in context?

Thanks!

Tom
 
To be honest, you may have to print out the FAQ you linked above, the source of Tom's quote, and still have to take an ATF Agent to a store to say that yes, it really is possible to have a dual-state residency and yes, you do qualify.

They don't have to sell to you, and you're asking them to take your word that selling to you won't cost them their license or worse. In their shoes, I'm not sure I'd do it without an ATF guy/gal standing there confirming what you say about dual residency. Especially as you're using a NJ ID.
 
I believe one way around the issue is to apply for an ID (NOT DL) in the State that you don't have a DL in.

E.G. DL NJ
ID Virginia
 
I believe one way around the issue is to apply for an ID (NOT DL) in the State that you don't have a DL in.

I tried that at the VA DMV, but the state of VA will not issue a photo ID to anyone who already possesses a valid driver's license from any state.

I can understand that an FFL would not want to risk his license just to sell a single handgun, and if I have to pull out copies of BATFE regulations and explain it to him I probably will not get anywhere. I need to find an FFL who already understands dual residency and that a driver's license is not required. Anyone know one in SW VA? :)

Legally I should be able to buy a handgun with my passport for identification and my VA tax bill for proof of residency.

Tom
 
As much as a hassle it is to buy a handgun here (in NJ), why not buy it / them here and transport it / them to VA?

I brought some of mine here, and as soon as I'm outta here they're going with me.
 
As much as a hassle it is to buy a handgun here (in NJ), why not buy it / them here and transport it / them to VA?

I have given that some thought, but I just have an aversion to having to be fingerprinted, my friends contacted as references, and waiting six months to exercise my right to own a gun. I'll be moving permanently to VA within the next few years, so I can wait if I have to. In the mean time, I do have a shotgun at the VA house for bedroom defense. If I can find an enlightened FFL I'll add a handgun or two for downstairs defense.

Tom
 
Does Virginia allow for face-to-face sales? Can you buy from a private party without the 4473 nonsense?

Yes, private sales are legal in VA with no paperwork. I am shopping for a private sale, but haven't found a handgun I want yet.

That said, I am told that most private sellers also want to see a VA DL to cover themselves, as it remains illegal to sell a handgun to an out-of-state buyer. I would have to educate them on dual residency, which can be difficult.

Tom
 
Private seller may just be as cautious as a dealer when it comes to an out of state license in a private sale. Just a thought.
We all know how easy it is to buy handguns in the evil south and then to be only resold up north like in states like NY,NJ
 
Interesting site - thanks!

Ideally I would like to stroll into my local gun shop and just order a new CZ 75 P-01 and a Remington R51, but I'll consider a used private sale just to get a handgun into the house for now.

Tom
 
Dual residency in buying

Just to veer off the path a bit about "Dual Residency" issues. I was a Michigan resident for near 60 years, I opted to become a Florida resident as I was spending 8+ months here. Now I still have a home, pay property taxes, electric bills and a bank account in Mich but carry Fla D/L. I asked the State Motor Vehicle D/L Dept about a Mich ID picture card, not a D/L..."NOOOWaaaay Buster"! The reason I was asking and told that dept so was when trying to cash or write my own checks from the Mich Bank once the Fla D/L ID was proffered all actions were refused, as in "no cashy/takey your check sir"! Are diff States more tolerant about duals? I know our one time Gov of Mich was a Dual Citizen..USA and Canadien citizenship, never did get an answer on how that was done. Thanks
 
What if you go to the post office while in MI and apply for a passport card? This is a fairly new thing that our dear gummint has come up with to facilitate travel between the U.S. and Mexico and Canada -- it's basically a credit card-sized passport. No space for entering visas and/or stamping entries into and exits from foreign countries, so it can't be used for most other, international travel, but it is accepted for crossing our borders with our neighbors.

If you can obtain that using the Michigan address, I would think that would trump any state driver's license for ID purposes.

Looks like you can apply in a state other than where you have your driver's license:

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/passports.html

Photo Identification

When you submit your application, you must present one of the following primary photo identification documents, and submit a photocopy of that document:

  • Valid Driver's License (plus a second ID if issued in a different state than where you apply)
  • Undamaged U.S. Passport (if issued less than 15 years ago)
  • Certificate of Naturalization
  • Valid government ID (city, state, or federal)
  • Valid Military ID
 
Dual residency

Aguila, thanks for the info about the passport pocket card. I'll look into that next time I go to Mi.
 
I'm sure they do. And, as a Michigan resident applying in Michigan, TomL would apply using his Michigan address. If the clerk asks why not use the state matching the driver's license, the answer is that he has two legal residences and that he's more likely to cross from Michigan to Canada than from Florida to Cuba, so he would like the passport card to match the Michigan address.

Will they do it? I don't know. If he has an old passport, especially one with the Michigan address, he can use that as the only form of ID he has to present and there shouldn't be any question.

{Edit} Having said I'm sure they show the address ... looks like I was wrong. Dang it, we're not even a full month into the new year ...

original
original


Sorry ... another great idea died a-borning.
 
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