Dragoon wedge won't stay put...

R

Rigmarol

New member
I shoot two Dragoons in CAS matches that have been converted to shoot .45colt BP cartridges. I love it and have a ball with them.

One revolver has always had a problem with the wedge working it's way out. Recently it actually was flung out and we had to stop the match to look for it. We found it and it has happened twice more.

I order some replacement wedges and even though I'm assured they are correct for my gun, they don't fit any better than the originals. They actually seem to go in too far.

I'm thinking I may have a stretched arbor or deformed wedge slot on the arbor.

Short of machining a larger (wider) wedge does anyone know if there is a process to fix this? I'm thinking I may have to buy a new arbor but I hope not.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
wedge

Are you also missing the retaining screw?
If not then does your screw have a flat edge on the head?
If so insert the wedge, then turn the screw so the flat edge is away from the wedge.
A lot of heavy load shooting and stretch the arbor hole for the wedge.
Not really common but it can happen.
Or somebody (if previously owned) over filed it.
A quality machine shop should be able to wire feed the dlot slightly smaller.
Then you could file it out.
 
Take your micrometer to it and measure it at several points. Also measure the hole it goes into.

If it is undersized, you may want to turn the wedge on its side and peen it slightly. This will expand the metal out, make it wider and tighter fitting in the hole. You could also take a prick punch and stiple it but not on any surface that can be exposed. Do one or the other.

Good luck.
 
Are you also missing the retaining screw?
Click to expand...
No, I have the screw.
If not then does your screw have a flat edge on the head?
If so insert the wedge, then turn the screw so the flat edge is away from the wedge.
Click to expand...
It (as well as the other Dragoon I have) has a round headed screw not one with a flat on it.
A lot of heavy load shooting and stretch the arbor hole for the wedge.
Not really common but it can happen.
Or somebody (if previously owned) over filed it.
Click to expand...
Yeah, this is what I'm afraid may have happened.
A quality machine shop should be able to wire feed the dlot slightly smaller.
Then you could file it out.
Click to expand...
That sounds like a good option...

Thanks for the reply.
 
Take your micrometer to it and measure it at several points. Also measure the hole it goes into.

If it is undersized, you may want to turn the wedge on its side and peen it slightly. This will expand the metal out, make it wider and tighter fitting in the hole. You could also take a prick punch and stiple it but not on any surface that can be exposed. Do one or the other.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

I measured it then called ATI (who I bought these from) asking if maybe I ordered the wrong part (like for a smaller colt) I was assured I had the correct part and it measured out to spec. That's why I'm thinking I stretched the arbor slot or deformed it.

When compared with the other colt, it is in fact a bit larger.

It was suggested above that wire weld and filing might be a fix.
I'm thinking it might be a good idea unless someone chimes in as to why it isn't.

Thanks for the reply.
 
OK, I'm a slacker. I goggled and found it has a spring. Bending the spring will increase the tension.

This would require heating it to cherry red and then bending it and letting it cool off in vermiculite. Afterward it is tempered in a lead pot (650-700) degrees for twenty minutes.
 
I had a 1860 with an arbor slot too long, after closing the barrel gap. I adjusted the slot by brazing, a lot more controllable than sparks and arches.
 
Tighten Up Arbor Slot

The arbor slot can be effectively tightened without any heat being used either for brazing or soldering. A simple shim can be made from copper or brass. A copper penny works great. Cut shim to be slightly oversized and force into place using the wedge. Shim stays in place via a tight friction fit. File shim down to proper thickness. I have several Colt clones with this modification and they have never failed.

IMG_0003.jpg
 
That's another good idea. Thank you Smokin' Joe.

One thing to bear in mind, whenever you work on a gun, work on the cheapest piece first. Why? If you ruin it, it's better to spend $20 on a new replacement than $120 on a more expensive new replacement.
 
I put a set screw at the end of all my opentops arbors. This gives you an adjustable key hole for the wedge. Do you shoot your .45 conversion exclusively? If so, i have what i call a "captured wedge" fix. The wedge wil NOT be able to work out.
If you pm me, i will send my ph# and can tell how i do this.
Works perfect in all my conversions.

45 Dragoon
 
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For a correct fitting wedge the end of the slot in the arbor should have a corresponding taper to that of the wedge. If it is just a straight across slot as many of them are the wedge will only be bearing on a small portion of the arbor and can shoot loose in short order.
 
Guys! All great suggestions! I am appreciative for them all.

I like the shim idea first. I think I'm going to start in that direction.

I do shoot the conversions more than the Cap and Ball but I want to retain the ability to go back and forth. So no permanent fix that limits the option to go back and forth is desirable at this time. But thanks.

I'll report back after I give it a try.
 
Didnt say you couldn't shoot c&b, it's just a better way to set up conversions. I use the same set up for all my opentops


45 Dragoon
 
The real reason for the prob. is a looser fitting arbor than the other. The arbors are too short to begin with. When set up right, the arbor bottoms out in the key hole and this allows the stresses to be absorbed by the whole gun instead of setting up vibrations between the frame and barrel assy's. The vibrating "jack hammers" the wedge and in some cases, spits um out!!!
So, the best solution for the problem is to fix the cause. The arbor bottoming out also sets the barrel / cylinder gap which is right at .002 on all my open tops. It's the only fix that will maintain a consistant gap.

45 Dragoon
 
Had a similar problem with a pair of Colt 1860 Armies custom converted to .44 Colt. They are my main match pistols for 3 years now in CAS activities.
I am shooting smokeless under 200 grainers. The MIP of these reloads is 120.
One pistol functions reliably, in the other the wedge worked itself out of the slot for a couple of months now, particularly when factory ammo with heavier bullets like 230 grainers was used.
The issue in the troubled pistol was the tip of the spring of the wedge which is protruding on the right side of the barrel lug. The shape of the tip is supposed to be square for a max. gripping surface. This had changed (from use) to a roundes shape i.e. less surface to keep the wedge in place.
Wedge exchanged, problem solved.
Long Johns Wolf
 
Bootsie,
Glad that worked for you but what will you do when wear calls for you to push the wedge in further? Your reason for the fix wont work untill the wedge works out to the point that the squared end will catch, leaving you with a loose fit and bigger barrel/cyl gap.
The lip at the end of the spring is designed to catch on the head of the wedge screw so full removal isn't needed for field striping, not for wedge location. Proper fit of the arbor and maintaining and consistant gap will make it easier for your wedge to do its job (at any setting) and not having to withstand a beating everytime it is fired.

My lap top is down right now and this sight wont allow me to post pics. with my phone. When i get a chance, i will post some pics of a captured wedge .

45 Dragoon
 
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