'Downgrading' an AR15 type rifle to bolt action?

D

Drae

New member
I knoooow it sounds counter-intuitive to do so, but is there any way to make an AR pattern rifle *not* cycle every shot, so each time one has to pull the charging handle, then shoot, and repeat? Coupled with a side charging upper it would make for an awesome straight pull bolt action, and these i absolutely love.
Also, any idea where to get such an upper in Europe? I'm saving up money for 'my first rifle' and i would love something like that. I mean... i could try and machine something like that, with CNC machinery and all... but that's so complicated and i don't want a friend of mine helping me make 'parts of deadly machinery' if i'm already playing with his CNC mill.
 
Would this do?

https://ruger.com/products/precisionRifle/models.html

If you prefer not to click the link,go to the Ruger web page,and look at the "Precision Rifle"

There are some Berarga rifles youmay find interesting,but they are less "AR" like.
The David Tubbs 2000 rifle is interesting,but probably quite expensive.

If you choose to follow your original idea,its possible.I'd suggest starting with an AR that does not pin the gas block/front sight to the barrel.

You could offset the gas block to cut off the port,or make a new dummy gas block.

IMO,it would be clumsy to use the original charging handle setup.I would guess the latch would soon wear.

As you suggested,a side charging setup could be used.That would require a side charging upper and bolt carrier. Those can be purchased,but I have no experience with them.

I would think removing/defeating the gas system and aside charging conversion would get you there. There are some specialized tools required to remove and replace the upper.

For myself,I have concerns with the side charge system in regard to the wall thickness of the bolt carrier and attaching the charging handle.There is only steel for a few threads,and it would be removed for cleaning,to get the bolt carrier out of the receiver.That somewhat defeats an easy,no tools field strip.
(I'm also a machinist)
 
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@HiBC, these Rugers are conventional bolt action, not straight pull. Also, these ammo types are hard to come by here. That nopes them out. Tinkering with the gas system is what i thought about, but first thing that comes to mind is the rifle becoming horribly loud for whatever reason. I mean, gas tubes and all are there for a reason and letting the gas go would make extra noise. Thank you for help anyway. And i'm not in the field so i have no need for field-strip-abblity, if i have to tinker with the gun i'll take it home, put it on the desk, and pull out a tool kit.

@taylorce1, this thing is lovely, but the magwell is... ugly (however nobody said anything about modifying that, i think magwell isn't put through much stress so welding something there might just work). There was a website linked in the website you linked (this sounds silly), pointing me at an upper without a gas system and a side pull, just perfect.
 
Removing the gas tube will do it. No gas to the action, the rifle must be cycled manually.

Removing ONLY the gas tube will leave your rifle blowing gas out under the handguard, where the port is. This may, or may not be an issue to you.

You could, simply remove the gas tube, and have a gunsmith, or machine shop thread the gas block and install a plug.
 
Around here nobody wants to work with guns oddly enough, especially a girl's guns. So, 'plug' the gas assembly? Won't it, like, explode or something? Dumb question but you can never be sure enough.
Also, no, i'd rather not have gas blowing onto my hands... buuut could i just put some sort of pipe there and make it vent out right under the barrel or somewhere where it won't cause issues?
 
There is a gas port drilled in the barrel. The front sight base/gas block has a port that routes gas to the gas tube. It also anchors the front of the gas tube.

On the mill you have access to,you could make a gas block that simply covers the barrel gas port. No gas leak.

Or,you could modify an existing gas block. I would have confidence in a properly threaded plug in the place of the gas tube.If you are concerned about the screw becoming a projectile,,the vertical portion of the port in the gas block gets drilled from above or below. Its another place you can plug.From below,a simple counterbore will trap a plug ,blocking the port.

No gas escapes.

Pressures at the gas port are lower than peak chamber pressure.I'm sure it would be less than 10,000 psi.If you used a 6mm screw or plug,the surface area exposed to pressure would be about .044 sq in. Subjected to 10,000 psi,there would be a load of 450 lbs.(FWIW,I doubt there is 10,000 psi port pressure)

I hope you do not feel I am talking to you as a "girl with a gun" .IMO,you are a shooter who can run a CNC mill. I'm OK with you being a Woman.
 
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https://youtu.be/zXfpkvjOv50

Get a modified bolt catch.
https://tier5solutions.com/products/ar-15-modified-bolt-catch-mbc

Tier5_MBC_480x480.jpg
 
Unless it's a straight tube, further modification will be required.
Click to expand...

That goes without saying. Certainly not you, but I often read posts here that make me wonder how many folks can change a lightbulb. There's all sorts of suggestions to machine this, plug that, while the answer is bend the tube or cut it off so in can be installed upside down.

One poster wondered if it'd blow up the rifle! Sheesh.
 
A set screw or clamp on gas block can simply be turned around after removing the tube. The gas port won't be aligned so no gas.
 
but I often read posts here that make me wonder how many folks can change a lightbulb.
Click to expand...

Burrhead,there is more than one way to skin a cat. I'll give it to you turning a straight tube upside down might be a good idea. I never bothered to disable a gas system before.Don't figure I ever will.I like semi-auto. I did not think about it that much.

I suspect you haven't either. I'm thinking you put a tube in upside down and your gun didn't work.

Then you went to some body and said "My gun don't work" And they said something about light bulbs. And how sod gets laid down green side up.

See,I didn't learn that because I never built an AR that didn't work.

And you have waited all this time. Congratulations!
 
Well, thanks for all the construction advice. Now, questions questions, thoughts on the actual idea of a straight pull bolt action? Outside of toy guns these are rare i think (not unicorn rare but still not common).

...also i have to finally get some tools for myself so i can make stuff... (homemades yay!)
 
Burrhead,there is more than one way to skin a cat. I'll give it to you turning a straight tube upside down might be a good idea. I never bothered to disable a gas system before.Don't figure I ever will.I like semi-auto. I did not think about it that much.

I suspect you haven't either. I'm thinking you put a tube in upside down and your gun didn't work.

Then you went to some body and said "My gun don't work" And they said something about light bulbs. And how sod gets laid down green side up.

See,I didn't learn that because I never built an AR that didn't work.

And you have waited all this time. Congratulations!
Click to expand...

...seems kind of random.

To be fair, when I read the OP, my first thought was turn the gas block upside down and store the tube. Heck... if the hand guard is long enough, and your gas system is short enough, leave the tube in the gas block and turn it upside down and backwards to keep it with the gun.

I haven't built that many ARs, but I have yet to build one that didn't work, and I had the same thought as this convoluted hypothetical... :D
 
The idea of a straight pull bolt action is neat, elegant, and seems like it ought to be a world beater (in its class), but somehow, historically, that never quite happened.

The names that come to me, off the top of my head are Ross, Lee, Schmidt-Rubin, and Browning. I'm probably missing some, but those are the "big" ones I remember.

The Canadian Ross, and the American Lee-Navy were used in service, but despite some love by the users were not considered successful enough for the design to be retained for future use.

The Swiss, on the other hand, kept the straight pull system, improving their original design in later models, and only switched to the semi auto /select fire rifle after WW II. The Swiss are tremendous weapons designers and makers, but historically, have not had to be major weapons users.

One of the reasons straight pull bolt actions have not been tremendously successful is because they are more complex and more expensive to make than traditional bolt actions. And they are not able to apply the same force to camming the bolt open, or closed as the traditional bolt action.

To a 1900s era military these can be very large considerations.

So, with a traditional bolt gun (Mauser, SMLE, Moisin-Nagant, etc) being thought to be at least slightly superior in the slop of infantry combat, as well as being simpler and cheaper, the slight speed advantage of the straight pull lost out.

Browning made a really neat straight pull .22LR for a time. called the "T-bolt". Never a huge commercial success, probably because it cost more than its competition's semi autos...

As a straight pull bolt action, the AR has a built in drawback, the charging handle. Compared to some other guns, its rather flimsy, and in a horridly poor spot, (ergonomically) for constant use (every round) AND, it only works one way.

I do not know about the "side charger" AR uppers, does their handle work both ways? Or does it also rely only on the spring to close the action?
Left side handle, isn't it?? Also not the best spot, but less awkward than the standard AR set up.

If you're looking for a military style rifle that can be manually operated as a straight pull action, look at the M1A.

Not cheap, I grant you, and maybe difficult to get in Europe, but it is made to have the gas system turned on and off at the user's desire. The gas system is meant to be turned off when firing rifle grenades (using blank cartridges) and all it takes is a screwdriver, (or anything else that fits in the slot, bayonet, case rim, coin, butter knife, etc. ;))

Serious rifle in a serious caliber (7.62 NATO) so costs more than ARs and smaller caliber ammo, may not suit your needs, but it is one rifle I can think of that can be either semi or a straight pull manual, (and could be switched every other shot if you want) that doesn't need any modification in order to do it.
 
Not counterintuitive, makes it a lot easier to retrieve brass for reloading.
The Mannlicher M95 and Swiss Schmidt-Rubins were the only really successful military straight pulls, the Mannlicher the only one that saw extensive combat use.
 
My understanding is a lot of biathlon shooters use a straight pull action.

Here's a very short video of a guy with an Anschutz straight pull:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOXS8PG6VPQ

And here's, IMhO, a really nifty video from Ruger. It's a woman on the US Biathlon team explaining the game and showing the straight pull action of her Anschutz .22LR rifle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGx03PheuUw

Please note these Anschutz rifles are REALLY expensive.
 
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I have been known to follow my own visions in spite of the feedback recommending against them.Sometimes I get the satisfaction of my own success,and sometimes I get an education.

I respect your thoughts.

When a cartridge..and I'm talking about a typical,modern centerfire cartridge is fired,its often just a little bit stuck in the chamber.Part of the genius of the conventional bolt action is "primary extraction" There is a ramp,or cam,usually at the root of the bolt handle ,that engages the receiver as the bolt handle is lifted.You will have a much greater mechanical advantage to initiate extraction with the bolt handle lever arm rotating the bolt with approx. a 20 deg ramp angle,versus the much steeper cam angle in the bolt carrier with no lever arm.

To say it more simply,in practice,pulling the op rod back may take considerably more effort than you imagine. Rifles designed to be straight pull may overcome this,but the AR was not designed as a straight pull.The gas pressure provides a considerably more violent linear force to the rear than we can do smoothly with our hand.

Make your own choice,of course,but for your first rifle..Many very experienced shooters would choose a conventional Mauser type bolt rifle. Rugged,dependable,lower cost...It will certainly do its job for you.
Sometimes a unique piece of gear will demand all of your attention and effort..to the point of not getting much shooting in.

Another TFL member posted this,a European gentleman who is quite skilled with a conventional turnbolt rifle. As you can see,lifting the bolt handle is not so bad.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=591770&highlight=shootist
 
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