Doubts about the USP
- Thread starter Mylhouse
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Actually, if I am going to buy a gun that big it had better be a .40 or a .45. Even the "compact" versions are big. I rarely, if ever, touch the 9mm versions of the USP.
Hey, you could be right though. Either H&K recalled them all or people are buying them like there's no tomorrow.
Shake
[This message has been edited by Shake (edited November 27, 1999).]
Hey, you could be right though. Either H&K recalled them all or people are buying them like there's no tomorrow.
Shake [This message has been edited by Shake (edited November 27, 1999).]
That flexing is what makes polymer handguns so durable, ie Glock, HK. It also acts as recoil dampner. That is why a Glock or a HK will last thru more rounds than say a Sig. I used to do the Glock thing till I found the light, the HK light that is. I've owned three Glocks a 30, 17, and a 31. My HK USP .45 will out shoot any of them any day of the week. But it is a close call between the HK and the G30
Shake-I didn't see your response as a flame, nor did I mean mine to be one. The truth is, I've thought about a USP 45 now and then, and I'd like for someone with convincing evidence to show me that I'm wrong. That way I could sleep easier at night justifying the cost, as well as trusting my own and my loved ones' lives to it. As it stands now, I have only one .45, the Kimber Classic. I regret getting rid of a G30, and I want a "higher capacity", less maintenance, and more corrosion resistant big bore to complement my Kimber.
The "hype" I'm referring to is HK's propaganda and the "golden calf" like treatment the USP has seemingly gotten on this forum. When I had my USP 9, I wasn't blown away. The Hostile Environment finish, in my opinion, didn't live up to the catalog's praises. My finish was starting to wear at contact points, and I took good care of the gun (definitely not as tough as the Glock finish). I already mentioned the trigger. Because the usp hasn't been around that long, hi-caps were a bitch to find, and VERY costly when espied. The fact that the polymer holding the right rear slide rail in place was starting to get chewed up really alarmed me. When I called HK, they treated me like dung when they found out I wasn't affiliated with a police or military organization. Then they told me that the problem was common and merely cosmetic. Well, if after only 450 rounds, part of the frame is starting to get chewed off, then I believe there is room for concern. To me it indicated that the movement of the slide during recoil was not perfectly straight and horizontal, and how long before the erosion of the frame started presenting problems? I hope I just had a lemon. No regrets, however, because I sold the gat for a little more than what I paid for it. The guy buying it was a a-hole, so I didn't bother mentioning the slide rail.
The "hype" I'm referring to is HK's propaganda and the "golden calf" like treatment the USP has seemingly gotten on this forum. When I had my USP 9, I wasn't blown away. The Hostile Environment finish, in my opinion, didn't live up to the catalog's praises. My finish was starting to wear at contact points, and I took good care of the gun (definitely not as tough as the Glock finish). I already mentioned the trigger. Because the usp hasn't been around that long, hi-caps were a bitch to find, and VERY costly when espied. The fact that the polymer holding the right rear slide rail in place was starting to get chewed up really alarmed me. When I called HK, they treated me like dung when they found out I wasn't affiliated with a police or military organization. Then they told me that the problem was common and merely cosmetic. Well, if after only 450 rounds, part of the frame is starting to get chewed off, then I believe there is room for concern. To me it indicated that the movement of the slide during recoil was not perfectly straight and horizontal, and how long before the erosion of the frame started presenting problems? I hope I just had a lemon. No regrets, however, because I sold the gat for a little more than what I paid for it. The guy buying it was a a-hole, so I didn't bother mentioning the slide rail.
BrokenArrow
New member
I've had em all. Like 1911s and High Powers best, probably why I shoot ANY USP better than any Glock. My USP 40s outshot my G32 every time, and were more reliable too.
I've had/seen less probs w the USPS than the Glocks too. I've had numerous Glocks that would fail to fire due to occasional light strikes, broken trigger springs, trigger bars, faulty mags, etc. Have seen several Glocks that blew up (ruptured barrels, cracked slide/frame), haven't seen a USP do that yet. Do have a pic of a USP w a broken frame, but that didn't happen shooting.
USPs are more than OK so far, but give me some time.
Shoot what you like and works for you. A strong case can be made for/against ANY of the guns today being "best". You're being childish if YOUR choice, what you like, has to be THE best.
I like 1911s, High Powers, USPs, Berettas, SIGs, CZs better than the Glock. They all work.
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I've had/seen less probs w the USPS than the Glocks too. I've had numerous Glocks that would fail to fire due to occasional light strikes, broken trigger springs, trigger bars, faulty mags, etc. Have seen several Glocks that blew up (ruptured barrels, cracked slide/frame), haven't seen a USP do that yet. Do have a pic of a USP w a broken frame, but that didn't happen shooting.
USPs are more than OK so far, but give me some time.
Shoot what you like and works for you. A strong case can be made for/against ANY of the guns today being "best". You're being childish if YOUR choice, what you like, has to be THE best.
I like 1911s, High Powers, USPs, Berettas, SIGs, CZs better than the Glock. They all work.
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I have two H&K USP.45 Compacts. As I've posted before, I like them not only because they're made by H&K, but because I'm left-handed, and these particular guns can be carried "cocked & locked" without the requirement for an ambidextrous safety, which I consider rather less than safe for this mode (Condition 1) of carry.
I'm an old H&K fan from way back, but, as I've posted on this board and elsewhere, it's my opinion that H&K has "hyped" the USP series a bit overmuch. The Hostile Environment finish doesn't even stand up well to the Gentle Environment of my holster, with wear showing at high points and contact points, this after very careful maintenence, including daily wipe-downs with a Sentry Tuff-Cloth.
That said, these guns in Variants 2 & 10 are lightweight, accurate, reliable, easy-to-shoot choices for left-handed people who like to carry in Condition 1. One of the ones I have (with the HE finish) is more precise & accurate than the other (stainless steel slide), and it really is a tack-driver. It is also lighter in weight than the Glock 30 (also an EXCELLENT gun) when both are fully loaded, even if the length & height dimensions of the USP are a bit larger than the Glock 30, though slide widths (at the widest points) and barrel lengths are substantially the same on both guns. The USP also fits my hand better than the Glock 30, as the grip circumference is slightly smaller, at the expense of two rounds. The USPs have never failed to feed, fire, extract or eject. (Neither has the Glock 30.) I like both gun types a lot. Since I feel better carrying .45acp than 9mm, these two are the only two good choices in that caliber for me, though in 9mm I consistently favor my H&K P7M8. (I don't much like the .40 S&W round. In equivalent guns, using comparable loadings for the given caliber, they don't have the accuracy & precision that the 9mm & .45acp have, in my hands at least.)
Anyway, even if H&K has over-represented the USP's HE finish, and also priced the guns rather too high for their construction-type (polymer frame), the guns do work well and are quite reliable, and for left-handed people they provide a unique (in the current market) availability for carrying "cocked & locked". I'd agree that the USP's double-action trigger pull is much longer and uneven than is desireable, though, and I would not choose to carry the guns in that mode because of it.
It seems like we're always trying to find "the best" gun or "the best" caliber/cartridge, to the exclusion of others. If you're secure in your ability to use & carry with the choices you make, that's about the best that can be expected, IMNSHO.
Best wishes to all.
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"Potius sero quam nunquam."
I'm an old H&K fan from way back, but, as I've posted on this board and elsewhere, it's my opinion that H&K has "hyped" the USP series a bit overmuch. The Hostile Environment finish doesn't even stand up well to the Gentle Environment of my holster, with wear showing at high points and contact points, this after very careful maintenence, including daily wipe-downs with a Sentry Tuff-Cloth.
That said, these guns in Variants 2 & 10 are lightweight, accurate, reliable, easy-to-shoot choices for left-handed people who like to carry in Condition 1. One of the ones I have (with the HE finish) is more precise & accurate than the other (stainless steel slide), and it really is a tack-driver. It is also lighter in weight than the Glock 30 (also an EXCELLENT gun) when both are fully loaded, even if the length & height dimensions of the USP are a bit larger than the Glock 30, though slide widths (at the widest points) and barrel lengths are substantially the same on both guns. The USP also fits my hand better than the Glock 30, as the grip circumference is slightly smaller, at the expense of two rounds. The USPs have never failed to feed, fire, extract or eject. (Neither has the Glock 30.) I like both gun types a lot. Since I feel better carrying .45acp than 9mm, these two are the only two good choices in that caliber for me, though in 9mm I consistently favor my H&K P7M8. (I don't much like the .40 S&W round. In equivalent guns, using comparable loadings for the given caliber, they don't have the accuracy & precision that the 9mm & .45acp have, in my hands at least.)
Anyway, even if H&K has over-represented the USP's HE finish, and also priced the guns rather too high for their construction-type (polymer frame), the guns do work well and are quite reliable, and for left-handed people they provide a unique (in the current market) availability for carrying "cocked & locked". I'd agree that the USP's double-action trigger pull is much longer and uneven than is desireable, though, and I would not choose to carry the guns in that mode because of it.
It seems like we're always trying to find "the best" gun or "the best" caliber/cartridge, to the exclusion of others. If you're secure in your ability to use & carry with the choices you make, that's about the best that can be expected, IMNSHO.
Best wishes to all.
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"Potius sero quam nunquam."
Broken Arrow, before you open up your piehole and call me childish, read and UNDERSTAND my post. I never said my guns were the best in a na-na-na-na-na-naaa manner because I OWNED them! I meant that I wanted to make sure I was getting the best possible gun for the money, one that unfailingly works, and one that does exactly what it is purported to do. I haven't come to a complete conclusion about the USP. That's why I'm making this post. I don't think it is too much to ask that a top dollar gun lives up to its promotion and "reputation". The one USP that I did have did not. I'm sure ONE gun of a particular make is not necessarily representative of ALL the guns. Hence my growing doubt and subsequent post. I'm not picking a fight, I just hate being misunderstood.
I don't know where you're seeing so many Glocks with problems, maybe its a 40SW thing. My buddy trains police and military in Central America. One of the police srevices went over to the Glock 17. The government produces machinegun grade 9mm FMJ on Czech machinery so that's what the Glocks get fed. They receive zero care, alright once every six months they get cleaned. They've not once had a single reported incident with the Glocks. The same police service recently and against the advice of the trainers started using Beretta 92FS. Great pistols except that since the officers never clean or lube them they jam often. Glocks aren't perfect but to claim that any USP or any other pistol is better than any Glock is purely subjective.
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So many pistols, so little money.
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So many pistols, so little money.
Frank the Spank
New member
Are the Mark23's made in the same cheap way?
for $1800 it better not be!
Man.. this debate is gettin really heated in here... and I can see where you all are comming from.
When I pick up a HK it fits my hand like a glove... has the rep of being tough as nails... and the desgin is smooth. But when I actually got inside of one it looks SOOO cheap... I mean.. it looks like the thing fires darts rather than bullets...
But then again I thought the same thing about ALL plastic guns when they first came out.. now I own a RugerP97... so I got over that... but the HK just seems so... flimsy...
It's either a great desgin... or built cheap... but from the rep and the large numbers of people I've met that swear by them... I think it's safe to say they have a great desgin and aren't built cheap.
But they ARE overpriced... sorta makes me lean twards Glock a little bit more... ::shrugs::
I already have a tank of a gun... my Desert Eagle... if that thing ever fails.. I can just hold it like a baseball bat and swing it till I hit something, probaly more deadly than shooting it, LOL
can't do that with an HK or Glock, hehehehe
-Frank the Spank
[This message has been edited by Frank the Spank (edited November 29, 1999).]
for $1800 it better not be!
Man.. this debate is gettin really heated in here... and I can see where you all are comming from.
When I pick up a HK it fits my hand like a glove... has the rep of being tough as nails... and the desgin is smooth. But when I actually got inside of one it looks SOOO cheap... I mean.. it looks like the thing fires darts rather than bullets...
But then again I thought the same thing about ALL plastic guns when they first came out.. now I own a RugerP97... so I got over that... but the HK just seems so... flimsy...
It's either a great desgin... or built cheap... but from the rep and the large numbers of people I've met that swear by them... I think it's safe to say they have a great desgin and aren't built cheap.
But they ARE overpriced... sorta makes me lean twards Glock a little bit more... ::shrugs::
I already have a tank of a gun... my Desert Eagle... if that thing ever fails.. I can just hold it like a baseball bat and swing it till I hit something, probaly more deadly than shooting it, LOL
can't do that with an HK or Glock, hehehehe
-Frank the Spank
[This message has been edited by Frank the Spank (edited November 29, 1999).]
George Hill
Staff Alumnus
Okay - this thread makes my skin crawl!
"Doubts about the USP" Indeed!
Oh, it's a sad time when wandering strangers can say "neh" to an old HK...
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Hey, have I mentioned my new book? It is called:
MEN ARE FROM MARS and WOMEN JUST NEED TO DEAL WITH IT!
"Doubts about the USP" Indeed!
Oh, it's a sad time when wandering strangers can say "neh" to an old HK...
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
Hey, have I mentioned my new book? It is called:
MEN ARE FROM MARS and WOMEN JUST NEED TO DEAL WITH IT!
Dammit, you guys even made me look harder at my own USP compact 9. Well rest assured, the frame of my pistol does not flex like it was made of rubber. The HE finish is still mint, even after it had fallen during a match on concrete. And 750+rounds went trough it by now. And no, the frame didnt get chewed up by the action.
The discussion which pistol is best is as old as humans using weapons.(this sword is made more durable and sharper than the one of smith Heckler or smith Gaston.)
If price is a problem, then I can see why. HK's are priced in the high category anywhere. But is any decent handgun right now.
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Disperse you rebels, disperse and lay down your weapons at once
The discussion which pistol is best is as old as humans using weapons.(this sword is made more durable and sharper than the one of smith Heckler or smith Gaston.)
If price is a problem, then I can see why. HK's are priced in the high category anywhere. But is any decent handgun right now.
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Disperse you rebels, disperse and lay down your weapons at once
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