DCloudy777
New member
GB... that STI is SWEET!!! But it's single action (like pistols should be), and can't be used in IDPA SSP.
Double stack Kahr 40?
- Thread starter Eric Larsen
- Start date
For all you people who believe that the Kahr is handicapped because it is a single stack gun and only holds a meek number of rounds (6 or 7 + 1 in 9mm, 5 or 6 +1 in .40), I have to say GOOD GRIEF!!! What exactly are you planning on going up against? I am a strong opponent of any and all gun control legislation and I believe that people ought to be able to buy whatever they want until they prove themselves unfit to do so (i.e. by their criminal record). But all that aside, are you seriously saying that you would not be well armed with a K9 holding 7+1 and one spare 7 round magazine that can be reloaded in less than a second. That is 15 rounds of lethal ammunition downrange. Have you hit your target with all 15 rounds? If not, you probably should not be carrying a gun. If so, is the target still a threat? If so, I think you better get a bigger gun with bigger bullets rather than 15 more of the same caliber. Most people prefer the feel of a single stack gun over a double stack gun. It is thinner and just fits the hand better enabling a good trigger reach and good control of the weapon. Most people who like double stack guns only do so because of the myth that more bullets make one safer. Of course there are exceptions. But, I think people should practice more on their accuracy and their reload drills and quit worrying so much about how many bullets the gun actually holds. My current carry gun, a 1911, holds 7 + 1 and I carry a spare 7 round reload. That is 15 rounds with one reload. My first carry gun was a Sig P226 that held 15 + 1. The 1911 has a more controlable single action trigger and a more potent round (.45 vs. 9mm) than the P226. I have also become a much more proficient pistoleer since my days with the P226. I assure you that I can put my 15 rounds of .45 on target now in significantly less time than I could put my 16 rounds of 9mm then. And the 1911 includes a reload...the P226 does not. I knew a guy that worked for a police department during the transition from S&W model 64 .38 Special revolvers to S&W model 5906 9mm semi-autos. On transition day he had a fellow officer with a new 5906 load up 6 rounds in each of three mags, and he loaded up his revolver and two speedloaders. On the buzzer, the revolver shooter embarrassed the semi-auto shooter. The lesson here is simple. COMPETENCE BEATS CAPACITY. I just hope that I am not one of the innocent bystanders in the crowd when one of you hi-cap spray and pray freaks decides some bad guy needs to be shot. I don't know too many people who can take two shots to the heart and one to the the brain. That is three rounds and complete, almost guaranteed, central nervous system shutdown. 3 rounds...think about that...now how many do you really need?
Sundance,
Too bad they don't make a pistol with only a 2-shot magazine for you, since three is all you'd ever need.
But seriously, I resent your implication that anyone who values higher capacity magazines is automatically a "spray and pray freak." I don't think Kel-Tec sacrificed ANYTHING to give me several additional rounds of ammo - and the ability to use existing pre-ban S&W magazines if I want. That just seems like smart design to me. Quite a few people add Hogue Hand-Alls (or whatever they're called) to Kel-Tecs to make the grip a little LARGER. I suspect that Kahr could have copied Kel-Tec and produced a pistol of about the same dimensions as their current models, but that hold an extra 2-3 rounds. Obviously different people value different things. If I can get higher capacity in the same sized pistol - I see that as a plus.
Doug
Too bad they don't make a pistol with only a 2-shot magazine for you, since three is all you'd ever need.
But seriously, I resent your implication that anyone who values higher capacity magazines is automatically a "spray and pray freak." I don't think Kel-Tec sacrificed ANYTHING to give me several additional rounds of ammo - and the ability to use existing pre-ban S&W magazines if I want. That just seems like smart design to me. Quite a few people add Hogue Hand-Alls (or whatever they're called) to Kel-Tecs to make the grip a little LARGER. I suspect that Kahr could have copied Kel-Tec and produced a pistol of about the same dimensions as their current models, but that hold an extra 2-3 rounds. Obviously different people value different things. If I can get higher capacity in the same sized pistol - I see that as a plus.
Doug
DougB...
You can resent all you want, but I don't really give a flip...
If you will re-read my post, I never said that anyone was "automatically" a spray and pray freak. I indicated that most people who put high capacity as a priority have accuracy of the shooter and shootability of the weapon as a lower priority, and I believe that this is a mistake. I also stated that there are exceptions. You could in fact be one of those exceptions.
This is a forum where by definition we say what is on our minds. Don't wear your feelings on your sleeve.
You can resent all you want, but I don't really give a flip...
If you will re-read my post, I never said that anyone was "automatically" a spray and pray freak. I indicated that most people who put high capacity as a priority have accuracy of the shooter and shootability of the weapon as a lower priority, and I believe that this is a mistake. I also stated that there are exceptions. You could in fact be one of those exceptions.
This is a forum where by definition we say what is on our minds. Don't wear your feelings on your sleeve.
Aside from the fact that I love my K-40 Elite 98; I ran the numbers on the original question on widening the magazine.
Ignoring the possible need for space for a larger spring:
.1" doesn't gain anything (naturally the .5" longer magazine gives you an extra round)
.2" meets the requirement for carrying 8 rounds in a .5" extended magazine
.28" let's you carry 8 rounds in a standard length magazine but you're up to the width of a thin double-stack (which is what you have)
Tom
Ignoring the possible need for space for a larger spring:
.1" doesn't gain anything (naturally the .5" longer magazine gives you an extra round)
.2" meets the requirement for carrying 8 rounds in a .5" extended magazine
.28" let's you carry 8 rounds in a standard length magazine but you're up to the width of a thin double-stack (which is what you have)
Tom
Sundance,
Sorry. "Resent" was probably too strong a word. I wasn't upset - I just disagree with you. I don't think (as you imply) that we have to choose between shootability and capacity - I see no reason we can't have both. I still think most reasonable shooters would prefer to have the maximum magazine capacity possible in a given handgun size. The existence of the Kel-Tec P11 and P40 prove that handguns in this size can be designed to hold the legal limit. Kahr obviously didn't think that was important. I think they've missed sales because of it, but to each his own. I still may buy a Kahr one of these days (can't get my P40 to work reliably so far), but I would be more excited about it if I weren't giving up several rounds of magazine capacity to get a slightly heavier gun. Now, if we're comparing Kahrs and Kel-Tecs to the compact double-stack Glocks, then I agree - they ARE too thick.
Doug
Sorry. "Resent" was probably too strong a word. I wasn't upset - I just disagree with you. I don't think (as you imply) that we have to choose between shootability and capacity - I see no reason we can't have both. I still think most reasonable shooters would prefer to have the maximum magazine capacity possible in a given handgun size. The existence of the Kel-Tec P11 and P40 prove that handguns in this size can be designed to hold the legal limit. Kahr obviously didn't think that was important. I think they've missed sales because of it, but to each his own. I still may buy a Kahr one of these days (can't get my P40 to work reliably so far), but I would be more excited about it if I weren't giving up several rounds of magazine capacity to get a slightly heavier gun. Now, if we're comparing Kahrs and Kel-Tecs to the compact double-stack Glocks, then I agree - they ARE too thick.
Doug