"... don't look at his eyes." ???
- Thread starter Melos
- Start date
The only way somebody else is going to hurt you with his eyes is if he rips them out of his head and throws them at you -- and he's still going to have to use his hands to do it.
Remember that during a fight you're going to have tunnel-vision. If you're looking the critter in the eyes, the tunnel-vision is going to limit your field of vision to his face.
Which means that if the critter drops his two-inch folding knife and whips out his BFG-2K, you probably won't know it, and won't be able to change tactics before starting your next incarnation.
Although, many long moons ago, I was told by an older gentleman who had Been There, Done That, Got the T-Shirt that looking into someone's eyes turned them from a threat needing to be dealt with, into a fellow human being.
It was his considered opinion that thinking of a threat to your life as a human being led to you empathizing with that fellow human being and caused you to become rapidly dead or a psych casualty.
Both of which should be avoided.
*shrug*
Take your pick. YMMV.
LawDog
Remember that during a fight you're going to have tunnel-vision. If you're looking the critter in the eyes, the tunnel-vision is going to limit your field of vision to his face.
Which means that if the critter drops his two-inch folding knife and whips out his BFG-2K, you probably won't know it, and won't be able to change tactics before starting your next incarnation.
Although, many long moons ago, I was told by an older gentleman who had Been There, Done That, Got the T-Shirt that looking into someone's eyes turned them from a threat needing to be dealt with, into a fellow human being.
It was his considered opinion that thinking of a threat to your life as a human being led to you empathizing with that fellow human being and caused you to become rapidly dead or a psych casualty.
Both of which should be avoided.
*shrug*
Take your pick. YMMV.
LawDog
Well, if his eyes just happen to be my target, I'm going to be looking momentarily at one of them anyway....
As LawDog says, you're going to have tunnel vision (from adrenaline), and you'll practically be able to count his eyelashes just as you'll be able to see amazing detail at anything you look at during such a time. There's also kind of a time warp that will go on in that everything will seem to be in slow motion except you.
Problem is that if you're not expecting those phenomena, they're liable to be distracting when they're wonderful enhancements of your senses designed to help you survive. You may have to train yourself to "scan" your assailant by deliberately changing your gaze to hand to hand to eyes to hand, etc., so it becomes habitual.
Never had that situation with a human adversary, but I spent countless hours training for the eventuality in air combat. When it happened "for real" in Vietnam, I was, and still am, absolutely amazed at how efficient the brain and senses suddenly become. I've never read a realistic account of what happens, and there's no way I can think of to describe it. The thing to remember is the rule that applies to every hazardous situation, and that is don't allow yourself to fixate on any one thing. Take it all in so your brain has the information it needs to evaluate what's going on.
As LawDog says, you're going to have tunnel vision (from adrenaline), and you'll practically be able to count his eyelashes just as you'll be able to see amazing detail at anything you look at during such a time. There's also kind of a time warp that will go on in that everything will seem to be in slow motion except you.
Problem is that if you're not expecting those phenomena, they're liable to be distracting when they're wonderful enhancements of your senses designed to help you survive. You may have to train yourself to "scan" your assailant by deliberately changing your gaze to hand to hand to eyes to hand, etc., so it becomes habitual.
Never had that situation with a human adversary, but I spent countless hours training for the eventuality in air combat. When it happened "for real" in Vietnam, I was, and still am, absolutely amazed at how efficient the brain and senses suddenly become. I've never read a realistic account of what happens, and there's no way I can think of to describe it. The thing to remember is the rule that applies to every hazardous situation, and that is don't allow yourself to fixate on any one thing. Take it all in so your brain has the information it needs to evaluate what's going on.
Edward429451
Moderator
Is that why my encounters with LEO's go downhill fast? I always look em in the eye. So you're saying that they see me as predatory? A potential threat for standing up lookin em in the eye instead of nervous furtive glances and staring at the ground or whatever. I've always been of the mind that people who won't look you in the eye are not to be trusted (Not talking about the young and nubile here) and those that will probably can be trusted. I once got a job because in the interview I looked him dead in the eye while talking and the other guy who was applying for the position would not look the guy in the eye. We were similarly skilled but I got the nod for that reason. They told me that.
Of course I've heard that if you look dogs in the eye, they see it as a threat, but I've never really made the connection to LEO's in the same light. I've been lookin people in the eye for years, probably cant stop now...
The eyes are the window to the soul. Much insight can be gleaned by doing this, and much can be communicated without ever speaking. Trying to do the right thing is like panning for gold flecks in a bowl of diarheea, Sometimes you win, sometimes it works against ya'...
Do you guys always look LEO's in the eye when stopped or whatever?
Do you LEO's get nervous when someone looks you in the eye too long?
Anybody think there's a connection to sheeple types not making eye contact and men who do make eye contact?
Very thought provoking. Hmmmm...
Looking at his eyes isn't really going to tell you a whole lot and it makes it harder to keep track of his hands. Man's a weapon-bearing animal and keeping track of his hands is much more important than the dubious skill of "reading his eyes".
You'll do a lot more good by looking at where you want your bullets to go...
Of course, movement off the line of attack and toward cover is critical to increasing your survival potential.
Any time you find a need to "size the guy up", you've just gone into Condition Orange (specific threat). Why do I need to make eye contact to figure out what he's going to do? I need to be moving to a position of advantage and preparing to engage and/or exit safely.
You'll do a lot more good by looking at where you want your bullets to go...
Of course, movement off the line of attack and toward cover is critical to increasing your survival potential.
Any time you find a need to "size the guy up", you've just gone into Condition Orange (specific threat). Why do I need to make eye contact to figure out what he's going to do? I need to be moving to a position of advantage and preparing to engage and/or exit safely.
cbjessee@NH
Moderator
At a self-defense seminar, we first did some techniques on our partners, then did them while looking our partners in the eyes. The advantage was impressive. Remember to fight the man, not the weapon, be it a fist, a foot, a knife or a gun. In CQC, the other man, if not trained, can be paused for that fraction of a second by direct eye contact.
Don't count on it, but it's better to know you can win eye-to-eye than to glance away. Try to find a fair way to assess this claim before expecting success.
BRET
Don't count on it, but it's better to know you can win eye-to-eye than to glance away. Try to find a fair way to assess this claim before expecting success.
BRET
The only time that I have found that looking in to a persons eyes helps in a fight is if you are very familiar with that indevidual and their spefcific behavior. You can tell if they are going to go "off".
With a stranger I don't see how looking at their eyes could help you. My tunnel vision is almost like a dream state. I try to make myself focus on the hands and the torso when I am fighting from the outside. I have also been able to see if any kicks are coming in and react accordingly.
LItlman................
With a stranger I don't see how looking at their eyes could help you. My tunnel vision is almost like a dream state. I try to make myself focus on the hands and the torso when I am fighting from the outside. I have also been able to see if any kicks are coming in and react accordingly.
LItlman................
Edward, we have the same thought that people who won't look you in the eye are not to be trusted.
This was always a saying of our old people in my place. And I believe in that.
What was taught to me that I should not look at the eyes is when you are about to fight with your adversary by gun or knife that you should look at the shoulders because that will tell you if he is going to pull a knife or a gun by his shoulders movement
This was always a saying of our old people in my place. And I believe in that.
What was taught to me that I should not look at the eyes is when you are about to fight with your adversary by gun or knife that you should look at the shoulders because that will tell you if he is going to pull a knife or a gun by his shoulders movement
Edward429451
Moderator
Obviously, the scriptwriter thought it sounded cool ...
Although ...
The feet, knees, hips, hands, and shoulders will tell you more about the physical actions being contemplated by your opponent ... depending on what sort of social interaction you've gotten yourself involved in ...
Looking someone in the eyes has both allowed me to control and dominate someone ... or set them off ... depending on the situation and what's going through the other person's mind, and especially if there's some chemical or other going through their veins ...
The only time I distinctly remember unexpectedly seeing the eyes was when I suddenly realized I had 3 white dots floating in front of my vision ... my sights ... and then 2 more white dots floating just above them ... my suspect's eyes. That's a lot of white dots to suddenly see when you think you or your partner are about to get shot. The only difference I could see in that split second of time was that the 2 dots that were his eyes had the ability to get larger ...
Don't know what to tell you ...
Although ...
The feet, knees, hips, hands, and shoulders will tell you more about the physical actions being contemplated by your opponent ... depending on what sort of social interaction you've gotten yourself involved in ...
Looking someone in the eyes has both allowed me to control and dominate someone ... or set them off ... depending on the situation and what's going through the other person's mind, and especially if there's some chemical or other going through their veins ...
The only time I distinctly remember unexpectedly seeing the eyes was when I suddenly realized I had 3 white dots floating in front of my vision ... my sights ... and then 2 more white dots floating just above them ... my suspect's eyes. That's a lot of white dots to suddenly see when you think you or your partner are about to get shot. The only difference I could see in that split second of time was that the 2 dots that were his eyes had the ability to get larger ...
Don't know what to tell you ...
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Guys, we're primates.
Sorry, creationists, but that's the way it works...
And primates are into dominance. When you walk into a facility with a lot of primates in it, it is advisable that you don't directly look 'em in the eyes. This invites a challenge from 'em. If you don't stare at their eyes, they don't see you as a challenge.
Same with a lot of predatory humans.
Sorry, creationists, but that's the way it works...
And primates are into dominance. When you walk into a facility with a lot of primates in it, it is advisable that you don't directly look 'em in the eyes. This invites a challenge from 'em. If you don't stare at their eyes, they don't see you as a challenge.
Same with a lot of predatory humans.
Something else that goes along with Bogie's comments, is that you may have little choice in making "direct" eye contact. Depends on your reason and purpose for being where you are, and interacting with someone in the first place.
If you're dealing with someone, or a small group of several people that are less dominant to a single one among them, you may have little choice but to make and sustain eye contact with the dominant person, and occasional eye contect with the less dominant ones. Sometimes the failure to make eye contact is seen as an admission that YOU are admitting to being less dominant, and you're suddenly prey again ...
Naturally, this isn't anywhere near this simple ... but there are ways to establish a boundary of dominance without being considered overtly aggressive and challenging. Several books written back in the 60's & 70's ... like The Territorial Imperative ... give interesting glimpses into our nature, and the way our societal interactions are still affected by the way we were thousands of years ago ... Okay, and still are in many parts of the world, but we're not supposed to look at it that way, you know?
Just remember these things are ingrained somewhere very deeply inside us ... somewhere back in the lizard brain, as it were ...
And don't be distracted by the eye-contact game, and forget to watch the entire body language. Sometimes the body contact will, indeed, give away a pending physical action that the other person hasn't even realized has already been decided upon by that portion of their primal nature buried within them ... Don't get blind sided ...
If you are into practicing the softly focussed-yet-unfocussed awareness gaze, this is easier to prevent, as you're able to take in their entire body language and eye movement ... But don't expect it happen over night. Not deliberately, anyway ... although your buried nature may bring it out and use it in times of life & death situations ... and without your conscious mind ever being aware of it, or being able to remember what it was that keyed you to the action a second before it occurred.
If you're dealing with someone, or a small group of several people that are less dominant to a single one among them, you may have little choice but to make and sustain eye contact with the dominant person, and occasional eye contect with the less dominant ones. Sometimes the failure to make eye contact is seen as an admission that YOU are admitting to being less dominant, and you're suddenly prey again ...
Naturally, this isn't anywhere near this simple ... but there are ways to establish a boundary of dominance without being considered overtly aggressive and challenging. Several books written back in the 60's & 70's ... like The Territorial Imperative ... give interesting glimpses into our nature, and the way our societal interactions are still affected by the way we were thousands of years ago ... Okay, and still are in many parts of the world, but we're not supposed to look at it that way, you know?
Just remember these things are ingrained somewhere very deeply inside us ... somewhere back in the lizard brain, as it were ...
And don't be distracted by the eye-contact game, and forget to watch the entire body language. Sometimes the body contact will, indeed, give away a pending physical action that the other person hasn't even realized has already been decided upon by that portion of their primal nature buried within them ... Don't get blind sided ...
If you are into practicing the softly focussed-yet-unfocussed awareness gaze, this is easier to prevent, as you're able to take in their entire body language and eye movement ... But don't expect it happen over night. Not deliberately, anyway ... although your buried nature may bring it out and use it in times of life & death situations ... and without your conscious mind ever being aware of it, or being able to remember what it was that keyed you to the action a second before it occurred.
Good points about the dominance gained by eye-contact. As an LEO I use eye-contact, illusionary height advantage and other subtle dominance body language every day.
However, it is my firmly-held conviction that once the fur starts to fly, the time to be subtly asserting dominance over the critter has done gone the way of the dodo.
By all means, use eye-contact until such time as the critter whips out a weapon, or attempts to separate you from your head.
Once the shank/gun/bottle/tire iron/punch enters the equation, you have lost the bid for dominance. Attempting to assert your dominance over the critter should be immediately dropped in favour of not getting dead.
But that's just me.
LawDog
However, it is my firmly-held conviction that once the fur starts to fly, the time to be subtly asserting dominance over the critter has done gone the way of the dodo.
By all means, use eye-contact until such time as the critter whips out a weapon, or attempts to separate you from your head.
Once the shank/gun/bottle/tire iron/punch enters the equation, you have lost the bid for dominance. Attempting to assert your dominance over the critter should be immediately dropped in favour of not getting dead.
But that's just me.
LawDog
Walking heels on a pair of ropers, and a black Stetson.
Also, moving with the person you are talking to so that you are on higher ground than them.
I once chewed out two aggresive juveniles whilst standing on one of those concrete things a the end of a parking space, so that they'd have to look up at me.
LawDog
Also, moving with the person you are talking to so that you are on higher ground than them.
I once chewed out two aggresive juveniles whilst standing on one of those concrete things a the end of a parking space, so that they'd have to look up at me.
LawDog
Lawdawg makes good points.
Attitude and appearance are your friends.
Blackhawk been there and came home.
If one is in an intense high stress situation and lives through it, one learns to keep track of ALL around while taking care of business. Not something you can get from a book tho, and the school is deadly for failures.
Sam
Attitude and appearance are your friends.
Blackhawk been there and came home.
If one is in an intense high stress situation and lives through it, one learns to keep track of ALL around while taking care of business. Not something you can get from a book tho, and the school is deadly for failures.
Sam