Stubby -- before you give up forever, consider a Glock 19 with Remington #R9MM6 ammo. It's a 115gr JHP+P with a more rounded nose. I had lots of bad experiences and did a lot of research to arrive at this combination. NEVER malfunctions. The combination was recommended to me for its feed-reliability. Don't know if it's the best, but it's working for me in two G19s, and in a whole bunch of magazines. Have heard good things about the 686, too. Good luck. L.
Done with Autos
- Thread starter stubby
- Start date
Stubby,
Stick with your intentions, ignore what the others are saying. If you are most comfortable with the revolver, then by all means shoot it until your fingers bleed.
For the rest of you, shame, he has stated a personal choice (I disagree with) but in any other thread you would be recommending that a new gun buyer get a gun that best fit, was the most comfortable to use, and the user had faith in.
Stick with your intentions, ignore what the others are saying. If you are most comfortable with the revolver, then by all means shoot it until your fingers bleed.
For the rest of you, shame, he has stated a personal choice (I disagree with) but in any other thread you would be recommending that a new gun buyer get a gun that best fit, was the most comfortable to use, and the user had faith in.
Stubby-
Again, I have 3 autos that are 100% reliable.
My Glock 20 10mm and my CZ75B 9mm have fired hundreds and thousands of rounds (respectively) with not one single malfunction, straight from the box. Thats because I use factory mags and GOOD factory ammo.
My Colt XS needed a break-in period of 200 rounds. You say "so called "break in period"" but I'm sorry, some pistols REQUIRE BREAK IN. I personally have never seen a new factory 1911 style pistol that didn't require a break in period, it's the way the new ones are made with very close, tight tolerences. The nature of the beast, given the design. You want a 1911 that doesn't need a break in, that will be 100% reliable? Buy a millitary surplus Colt M1911A1 or M1927, use CORRECT magazines (Colt factory, Metalform, Wilson Combat) and only shoot FMJ (like it was designed to shoot) and you'll have a very reliable pistol.
Since my 200 round break in (actually after my first box of 50) I have not had any failures at all with the Colt.
Magazines matter. Would you put a cheap sheetmetal/pig metal firing pin in your revolver? Same thing applies to the magazine in an autoloader. Parts of questionable quality add up to a gun of questionable quality. Same goes for ammo. Put a double charged or a sqib load in you revolver and see how reliable it is.
As for limp wristing, a solid firm hold on your auto is a nessecity in order for it to function, thats true. But, a solid, firm grip on ANY gun is going to get you better results than not.
-BB
Again, I have 3 autos that are 100% reliable.
My Glock 20 10mm and my CZ75B 9mm have fired hundreds and thousands of rounds (respectively) with not one single malfunction, straight from the box. Thats because I use factory mags and GOOD factory ammo.
My Colt XS needed a break-in period of 200 rounds. You say "so called "break in period"" but I'm sorry, some pistols REQUIRE BREAK IN. I personally have never seen a new factory 1911 style pistol that didn't require a break in period, it's the way the new ones are made with very close, tight tolerences. The nature of the beast, given the design. You want a 1911 that doesn't need a break in, that will be 100% reliable? Buy a millitary surplus Colt M1911A1 or M1927, use CORRECT magazines (Colt factory, Metalform, Wilson Combat) and only shoot FMJ (like it was designed to shoot) and you'll have a very reliable pistol.
Since my 200 round break in (actually after my first box of 50) I have not had any failures at all with the Colt.
Magazines matter. Would you put a cheap sheetmetal/pig metal firing pin in your revolver? Same thing applies to the magazine in an autoloader. Parts of questionable quality add up to a gun of questionable quality. Same goes for ammo. Put a double charged or a sqib load in you revolver and see how reliable it is.
As for limp wristing, a solid firm hold on your auto is a nessecity in order for it to function, thats true. But, a solid, firm grip on ANY gun is going to get you better results than not.
-BB
Marko Kloos
Inactive
I have a hard time trusting a carry gun if it even had one failure at the range. It's just a psychological thing...I always picture myself in a worst-case scenario, and I lose trust in the gun. Such guns get traded off or sold in short order. The only brands that have been 100% reliable for me are my *&* wheelguns, my Glocks, Berettas and SIGs. I've owned numerous examples of each brand, and have never experienced a failure of any kind in any of them. I have shot revolvers that ceased to function at the range, namely a Rossi 720 that had its cylinder binding after a few rounds of heavy .44 Special.
It is true that a malfunction in an auto can usually be fixed on the spot, while a malfunction in a revolver usually necessitates tools or the services of a gunsmith. All in all, I find myself carrying revolvers more often these days, because the combination of easy operation and high reliability works out fine for me. I don't have to wonder whether it'll feed the next round, and if I hear a *click* instead of a *bang*, I just pull the trigger again without any TRB drills. Personally, I think the main advantages of the autoloader, higher capacity and faster reload times, are largely unutilized in typical self-defense scenarios, which usually involve six rounds or less at six yards or less. The revolver's main advantages over the autoloader really come into weight here, namely guaranteed reliability ("six for sure"), ease of operation under stress, and the capacity to function even in a pocket or when somebody else has his hand on it. That's why I find myself toting a Model 19 or 640 Carry Comp most of the time, with the occasional SIG day when I feel like packing "high capacity" ammo loadouts (8-round single stack mags).
It is true that a malfunction in an auto can usually be fixed on the spot, while a malfunction in a revolver usually necessitates tools or the services of a gunsmith. All in all, I find myself carrying revolvers more often these days, because the combination of easy operation and high reliability works out fine for me. I don't have to wonder whether it'll feed the next round, and if I hear a *click* instead of a *bang*, I just pull the trigger again without any TRB drills. Personally, I think the main advantages of the autoloader, higher capacity and faster reload times, are largely unutilized in typical self-defense scenarios, which usually involve six rounds or less at six yards or less. The revolver's main advantages over the autoloader really come into weight here, namely guaranteed reliability ("six for sure"), ease of operation under stress, and the capacity to function even in a pocket or when somebody else has his hand on it. That's why I find myself toting a Model 19 or 640 Carry Comp most of the time, with the occasional SIG day when I feel like packing "high capacity" ammo loadouts (8-round single stack mags).
Master Blaster
New member
Ther is no such thing as a 100% reliable semi auto.
If it never malfuntioned or misfed, its because you dont shoot it.
In a defensive situation like in a struggle a revolver is much more reliable than any semiauto.
Think about it the semi auto would have never had any defective ammo (feed sensitivity) can you guarrantee that the next box of ammo you buy wont have a burr on the case in one of the rounds that could cause a jam??
If you are under pressure you could limp wrist your glock, not a defect with the gun just the way an auto feeder works.
A snubby revolver is most reliable for close quarters self defense.
This is not even debatable in my book.
If it never malfuntioned or misfed, its because you dont shoot it.
In a defensive situation like in a struggle a revolver is much more reliable than any semiauto.
Think about it the semi auto would have never had any defective ammo (feed sensitivity) can you guarrantee that the next box of ammo you buy wont have a burr on the case in one of the rounds that could cause a jam??
If you are under pressure you could limp wrist your glock, not a defect with the gun just the way an auto feeder works.
A snubby revolver is most reliable for close quarters self defense.
This is not even debatable in my book.
A nice thing about handguns is that there are so many flavors. If you prefer revolvers, thats great. Have fun with what you have. It will build confidence and skill in the use of them. I have kinda gone full circle. When I started shooting 17 years ago, I tried revolvers and semi autos and preferred the semis. My collection consists of HK's, Berettas, Colts and my son's Ruger 22lr. Lately tho, I've rediscovered the revolver and have been looking at adding one into the mix.
As for looks...well, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
As for looks...well, I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Lets see, I've put 2200 rounds of ammo through my CZ75b with ZERO (0) failures. That means 100% reliable, and yes, I'd say 2200 rounds means I shoot it. Alot. I've put 300 rounds through my Glock 20, and had ZERO (0) malfunctions. Not as much shooting through that one, but thats because 10mm is more expensive to shoot and I've only had it a couple months.
In what way?
Yes. I look at my ammo before I load it. Something so defective that would cause a malfunction would be fairly obvious. Not to mention the fact that all carry ammo should be verified to function in your firearm, whatever type it may be. That means buy several boxes of ammo from the same lot, and shoot it. bad ammo will screw up a revolver same as a semi.
Point taken. Everyone should train with whatever their choice of defensive weapon is so that problems like this don't happen.
Sounds like your debating to me
Master Blaster
New member
Murphy's law if something can go wrong it will. There are simply less things that can go wrong with a revolver than with a semi auto. The problem with a semi auto in a close quarters situation is the fact that it must cycle each time you fire to load a new round in the chamber, Things that can prevent this:
Limp wrist due to an unnatural firing position.
Slide making contact with attacker as gun is cycling.
Ammo Baubles, small variances in the dimension of the ammo can affect feeding.
If the auto jams you must clear it before you can fire again. If a small chunk of metal from the bullet or the case gets stuck in the chamber after the first shot you are done. if this happens with a revolver pull the trigger again and you have a fresh chamber and a new round of ammo.
on a revolver the cylinder must rotate. In a struggle a snubby is harder to grab because its rounded, and smaller than most autos that shoot similar power ammo.
If the attacker grabbed the revo you could rest it from his grip and pull the trigger again this requires 1 hand.
On a semi auto that has jammed after the first shot because of contact with the attacker, you will have to unjam it and cycle another round. this requires 2 hands.
Imagine your attacker has a knife would you take your strong hand off the knife to clear your jammed auto?
Remmeber MURPHYS LAW is in full operation, and you senses may be impaired by adrenaline.
But dont take my word for it. Take you snubby and you semiauto to the range alon with an old pillow. Jam the muzzle of your most reliable semi into the pillow and fire one round. Did the slide cycle and a new round load if so no worries.
Try this with a snubby and you will always get off five shots cause it will not jam.
A while back there was a story from australia about a bartender who was held up by a guy with a revolver. the bartender had his custom 1911 which jammed on the first shot as the muzzle was up against the robbers leg as they struggled. The robber managed to get off all six shots from his revolver and wounded the bar owner. I searched for the thread but could not find it.
Perhaps this is why most police agencies carry a snubby as a backup gun for when the semi auto jams.
Limp wrist due to an unnatural firing position.
Slide making contact with attacker as gun is cycling.
Ammo Baubles, small variances in the dimension of the ammo can affect feeding.
If the auto jams you must clear it before you can fire again. If a small chunk of metal from the bullet or the case gets stuck in the chamber after the first shot you are done. if this happens with a revolver pull the trigger again and you have a fresh chamber and a new round of ammo.
on a revolver the cylinder must rotate. In a struggle a snubby is harder to grab because its rounded, and smaller than most autos that shoot similar power ammo.
If the attacker grabbed the revo you could rest it from his grip and pull the trigger again this requires 1 hand.
On a semi auto that has jammed after the first shot because of contact with the attacker, you will have to unjam it and cycle another round. this requires 2 hands.
Imagine your attacker has a knife would you take your strong hand off the knife to clear your jammed auto?
Remmeber MURPHYS LAW is in full operation, and you senses may be impaired by adrenaline.
But dont take my word for it. Take you snubby and you semiauto to the range alon with an old pillow. Jam the muzzle of your most reliable semi into the pillow and fire one round. Did the slide cycle and a new round load if so no worries.
Try this with a snubby and you will always get off five shots cause it will not jam.
A while back there was a story from australia about a bartender who was held up by a guy with a revolver. the bartender had his custom 1911 which jammed on the first shot as the muzzle was up against the robbers leg as they struggled. The robber managed to get off all six shots from his revolver and wounded the bar owner. I searched for the thread but could not find it.
Perhaps this is why most police agencies carry a snubby as a backup gun for when the semi auto jams.
I've had more than one autopistol go thirty thousand-plus rounds sans malfunction number one while shooting one-handed, strong hand or weak hand, held in two fingers or fired from rollover prone. OTOH, I've had 9mm, 10mm and .45 ACP revolvers jam up from bent moonclips; lightweight .38's and .44's bind up from bullets which jumped their crimp; Dan Wessons heat up and foul the forcing cone from cylinder expansion; older Colts and Smiths break hands, leaf-type springs, and hammer mounted firing pins.
Blue Duck357
New member
May just be my mojo,
I've owned 7 centerfire semi-auto pistols: Beretta, Taurus PT 92, 2 1991A1's, Makarov, Tangfolio? (CZ-75 clone) and a Glock 23. The rear sight fell off the Tangfolio my first session out, but other than that, not one single malfunction with any of them at any time. No stove pipes, no double feeds, no nothing.
My first ever pistol was a SW 586. First range session out the ejector rod backed out after the first 4 rounds and tied the gun up till I could get to a smith. My first carry gun when I became a parole officer was a SW 640, broke it's fireing pin during my second qualification with it. I've since been advised that this was due to dry firing it as the concealed hammer Smiths don't take to this practice well.
I've owned 7 centerfire semi-auto pistols: Beretta, Taurus PT 92, 2 1991A1's, Makarov, Tangfolio? (CZ-75 clone) and a Glock 23. The rear sight fell off the Tangfolio my first session out, but other than that, not one single malfunction with any of them at any time. No stove pipes, no double feeds, no nothing.
My first ever pistol was a SW 586. First range session out the ejector rod backed out after the first 4 rounds and tied the gun up till I could get to a smith. My first carry gun when I became a parole officer was a SW 640, broke it's fireing pin during my second qualification with it. I've since been advised that this was due to dry firing it as the concealed hammer Smiths don't take to this practice well.
don't shoot it's me
New member
Went to the range last week....no malfunctions with my P7....shot one cylinder full of +Ps in my model 60 and I couldn't open the cylinder...high primer I'm guessing, didn't examine too closely cause I was qualing with it..good thing it was on the last round....anything can malfunction....depends on your situation...I still like a snubby for pocket carry......that was the only time in 20 years by the way my snubbie had a problem...and i did get off all five.....
did you ever try one of the Ruger P series pistols, these are one type of pistol that I could buy and feel comfortable with in term s of reliabilty. I do think that revovlers have and edge. you are not depending on feeding between rounds. but a revolver can go bad, and jam up just as bad. a taurus 85 would develop a 25 lb trigger pull after 30 rds.
my gun now is a GP .357, and this is reliable with all ammo and with my reloads. 200 rds and a misfire with one of my early reloads.
i did close the cylinder a few times and turned it the wrong way to lock up, this jammed it up, but still it was user related.
also the makarov seems to be as relaible as the ruger P series
my gun now is a GP .357, and this is reliable with all ammo and with my reloads. 200 rds and a misfire with one of my early reloads.
i did close the cylinder a few times and turned it the wrong way to lock up, this jammed it up, but still it was user related.
also the makarov seems to be as relaible as the ruger P series
juliet charley
New member
I get a kick some of the same old stuff put about by the defenders of pistols is these threads:
By the second reply, somebody was already talking about Glocks being 100% reliable. As a whole, Glocks are reliable, but they are not 100% reliable. I have had Glocks fresh out of the box with factory mags that would not feed a whole magazine without jamming. While not necessarily strictly reliability issues, I have had Glocks whose best groups looked like shotgun patterns and others who would kick a least one piece of brass right back between every magazine--not exactly traits I look for in a combat handgun.
By the fourth reply, we had the old saw that if a revolver has a problem you have to take to a gunsmith, but if a pistol malfunctions you can clear it on the spot. A broken trigger spring is not uncommon in a Glock--how many of you have ever changed a Glock trigger spring under fire? All seriousness aside, a revolver is no more liable to major mechanical failure and so is a pistol--a major mechanical failure (parts break, etc.) will put you out of the fight regardless. In addition to mechanical failure, a pistol is subject to a whole host of other malfunctions that the revolver is not (though they may be easy to clear, they are a still a problem that have the potential to cost you your life).
Finally, my favourite is if a pistol fails it must be operator error (we have learned well from Glock representatives at pistol trials). If I have to assume a firing line stance and a firing line grip to insure a weapon works, it is rather useless a combat tool (particularly at close quarters). There are host of things that can (and will go wrong--Murphy's Law) during a fight including slippery hands, wounds, awkward positions and just about anything else that could prevent a perfect grip.
By the second reply, somebody was already talking about Glocks being 100% reliable. As a whole, Glocks are reliable, but they are not 100% reliable. I have had Glocks fresh out of the box with factory mags that would not feed a whole magazine without jamming. While not necessarily strictly reliability issues, I have had Glocks whose best groups looked like shotgun patterns and others who would kick a least one piece of brass right back between every magazine--not exactly traits I look for in a combat handgun.
By the fourth reply, we had the old saw that if a revolver has a problem you have to take to a gunsmith, but if a pistol malfunctions you can clear it on the spot. A broken trigger spring is not uncommon in a Glock--how many of you have ever changed a Glock trigger spring under fire? All seriousness aside, a revolver is no more liable to major mechanical failure and so is a pistol--a major mechanical failure (parts break, etc.) will put you out of the fight regardless. In addition to mechanical failure, a pistol is subject to a whole host of other malfunctions that the revolver is not (though they may be easy to clear, they are a still a problem that have the potential to cost you your life).
Finally, my favourite is if a pistol fails it must be operator error (we have learned well from Glock representatives at pistol trials). If I have to assume a firing line stance and a firing line grip to insure a weapon works, it is rather useless a combat tool (particularly at close quarters). There are host of things that can (and will go wrong--Murphy's Law) during a fight including slippery hands, wounds, awkward positions and just about anything else that could prevent a perfect grip.
You get a kick out of the "same old stuff by defenders of pistols" in much the same way that I get a kick out of the "revolvers are 100% infallible crowd". Sure, folks who own a Taurus 85 and put half a box of LRN's through it every year to make sure it works probably do think revolvers are infallible. Based on my experiences, they break too. With a good modern auto that one has fired enough to be sure of its reliability, one is armed just fine IMHO. I have a revolver by my bed and an auto on my hip (this particular revolver has had more stoppages than this particular auto, btw, until I learned how to demoon cases without bending the moonclips)... 
juliet charley
New member
Hey Tamara -
I never said revolvers were 100% reliable--I know better. I just get a little tired of the same of stuff (with little or no factual basis) getting trotted out every time.
I personally believe that both platforms have their advantages and disadvantages, and like you, use both (though I have never had trouble with any my .45 ACP revolvers--I check the clips religiously and use a "demooning" tool), and like pistols, some revolvers are better than other. For example, I would not trust a Python with full power .357 Magnums for long, and I do not carry +Ps in aluminum framed revolvers--I do think if you stick with quality .38 Specials in J and K-frames (and use some common sense maintenance) you should be able to shoot a lifetime and never have problem you can't cure with another trigger pull. (The same can be said with .357 Magnums in L and N-frames and Rugers.) Frankly though, my preferences are the large bore (.44 Special/light .44 Magnums, .45 ACP/AR, .45 Colt) in N-frames. I never trust any handgun, pistol or revolver, until I have fired it enough to be comfortable with its reliability.
I think overall the reliability edge will have to go revolvers (if ever so slightly), particularly when it comes the casual user (LEO or armed citizen). While your Taurus 85 might the least common denominator when it comes to revolver, I think if you are going to keep any handgun in a drawer and put a half a box of ammo through it a year you are better off with a revolver (I'd pick a S&W M10 over the Taurus M85 though) than any automatic.
I never said revolvers were 100% reliable--I know better. I just get a little tired of the same of stuff (with little or no factual basis) getting trotted out every time.
I personally believe that both platforms have their advantages and disadvantages, and like you, use both (though I have never had trouble with any my .45 ACP revolvers--I check the clips religiously and use a "demooning" tool), and like pistols, some revolvers are better than other. For example, I would not trust a Python with full power .357 Magnums for long, and I do not carry +Ps in aluminum framed revolvers--I do think if you stick with quality .38 Specials in J and K-frames (and use some common sense maintenance) you should be able to shoot a lifetime and never have problem you can't cure with another trigger pull. (The same can be said with .357 Magnums in L and N-frames and Rugers.) Frankly though, my preferences are the large bore (.44 Special/light .44 Magnums, .45 ACP/AR, .45 Colt) in N-frames. I never trust any handgun, pistol or revolver, until I have fired it enough to be comfortable with its reliability.
I think overall the reliability edge will have to go revolvers (if ever so slightly), particularly when it comes the casual user (LEO or armed citizen). While your Taurus 85 might the least common denominator when it comes to revolver, I think if you are going to keep any handgun in a drawer and put a half a box of ammo through it a year you are better off with a revolver (I'd pick a S&W M10 over the Taurus M85 though) than any automatic.
I have both revolvers and autos but tend to be more partial to revolvers for subjective and not entirely reational reasons. However, just off the top of my head I can think of an HK P7M8 that I had that within the first 50 rounds of standard pressure fmj ammo broke it's firing pin bushing and was rendered completely inoperable. HK fixed and it ticked fine ever since, but it still happened. I had a Rossi 720 that would begin to lock up from heat, I guess, after one or two cylinder-fulls of shooting. I purchased a Taurus 85Ti that bound incredibly and would not index properly on a couple of chambers. It is back at Taurus for the second time and still has not been fired by me. (I ordered this revolver or never would have bought it.) I have an SP-101 which, out-of-the-box, would not lock up properly. (Ruger fixed it promptly and it has been superb ever since.) I had a Beretta 950 which cracked internally, could not remove the slide and was replaced by Beretta. I bought a new Smith and Wesson Model 640 in .38 Special and when I inspected it closely, the firing pin protruded through the bushing and would have contacted a primer at rest. (Also fixed promptly and courteously and never a bit of problem since.) I have a Guardian .32, early model, whose magazine latch cracked in two, dropping the magazine and rendering the pistol inoperable except as a single shot. (Also fixed, upgraded and flawless since.) Revolvers and autos, expensive and inexpensive, all machines, all capable of breaking. I still tend to like revolvers a bit more because I shoot them better, in my thinking, and they are not "feed finicky" and they tend to feel better in my hand and give me a higher comfort level and I don't chase brass, etc. etc., and I think high-capacity is over-rated for the kinds of potential threats I might conceivably face. If I were to need capacity, I have a Ruger P95 with hi-caps that I would not hesitate to rely on completely. Inexpensive, durable, completely reliable. Just my partial experiences.
don't shoot it's me
New member
Why be done with anything? No need for such finality. Carry what you would bet your life on and shoot the rest at the range. Life would be so boring if we had to choose....I chose a brunette but I wouldn't turn down a nice blonde.......
Arizona Eric
New member
Revolvers simply AREN'T that reliable. Like the guy up top said, when they go, they really go and you are not shooting anymore. I have experienced light primer strikes (repeatedly) with a SW 49, some interlock mechanism failed on my SW 629 making it inoperable, and I had a Python that went out of time.
I carry a Glock 27. Thousands of rounds of jacketed reloads, no malfunctions ever.
I carry a Glock 27. Thousands of rounds of jacketed reloads, no malfunctions ever.
Don Randall
New member
Maybe I'm just lucky?
I have never experienced any mechanical failures from any of my revolvers or autoloaders - not even one. And yes, I do shoot 'em.
The only time I have ever had any failure, an be attributed to defective ammo. Other than that, in over twenty years, I have never had any malfunctions such and FTF or FTE with either my
Ruger P85 MkII or my Glock 27. My Ruger Security Six has launched multiple thousands of rounds, and seems as fresh as the day it was new. My little Rossi .38 snubbie has proven to be surprisingly easy to shoot well, and has never given me any reason to doubt it's reliability, even after many, many rounds.
Neither revolver has ever done anything - other than work properly and reliably.
I'm beginning to wonder if I should start to worry.
Does all this mean that maybe it's gonna be my turn, soon?
-Don-
I have never experienced any mechanical failures from any of my revolvers or autoloaders - not even one. And yes, I do shoot 'em.
The only time I have ever had any failure, an be attributed to defective ammo. Other than that, in over twenty years, I have never had any malfunctions such and FTF or FTE with either my
Ruger P85 MkII or my Glock 27. My Ruger Security Six has launched multiple thousands of rounds, and seems as fresh as the day it was new. My little Rossi .38 snubbie has proven to be surprisingly easy to shoot well, and has never given me any reason to doubt it's reliability, even after many, many rounds.
Neither revolver has ever done anything - other than work properly and reliably.
I'm beginning to wonder if I should start to worry.
Does all this mean that maybe it's gonna be my turn, soon?
-Don-