Dog assault

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About ten years ago I was walking my dogs, I had a 95 pound German Shepherd and a 35 pound Border Collie and they were both four and all muscle. I had them both leashed, and a leash in each hand. We were in my old neighborhood in Portland, a residential area. It was a weekday in the late morning, and the neighborhood was quiet.

I saw a movement out of the corner of my eye, and then my dogs turned and pulled on their leashes. I turned towards the direction of their pull and saw a huge English Mastiff running full bore towards us. The fight lasted only about 90 seconds, I spent most of that time trying to keep my Border Collie out of the fray. The Mastiff locked onto my Shepherd.

The owner ran up, he was a really big guy, and it was a struggle for him to pry his dog off of mine. I was shaken, my Shepherd was straining at the leash for more, and the owner was apologizing but clearly didn't have full control of his dog. I gave my Shepherd a quick inspection, didn't see blood so I left.

When I got home from work that night my Shepherd was covered with huge abscesses and I rushed him to the emergency vet. I tracked down the owner (it wasn't hard to find the guy who owned the 200 pound dog) and he could not of been more gracious or apologetic. He paid my vet bill and tearfully told me that he was giving his dog away.

I learned that dog fights can be very sudden and that even if my dog looks okay right after the fight it's important to get the owner's info. That was the worst fight, but there were others. I've learned that you can get an aggressive dog to release if you grab it by the upper, inner thigh and grip hard while pulling it out of the fight (just be ready to deal with it's head when it spins around at you).

I found that a collapsible baton was the best weapon to carry while walking my dogs. Fortunately I never had to use it, but I didn't trust pepper spray because of wind and the danger of hitting my dogs while trying to break up a fight.

Most importantly after a couple of decades of owning and walking dogs I've learned never to expect the absolute worst from other dog owners, there are simply too many idiots out there with big, mean dogs.
 
One dead dog, a boy bitten twice and five dogs on the run

When we were kids, a german shepard killed our dog on christmas eve. I was bitten twice by dogs as a kid.

A while after I started carrying, I found myself being alone in the woods having a pack of five dogs charging at me at full speed. I drew and waited until the dogs were about 20 yds away. Then I fired a warning shot between me and the dogs. WOW. I didn't even see the dogs turn. In the blink of an eye they had changed their full-speed-charging-direction 180°.

I wouldn't use pepper spray, a baton or a knife against dogs. If there's time, I'll fire a warning shot (always into the ground please*). If there's no more time to risk, I'll shoot the dogs until they're no longer a threat. There are hundreds of casualties every year in the countries where firearms are shot into the air at celebrations.

Dogs can be lethal. Act with that in mind.

*) Please always keep in mind that a bullet shot into the air comes down with almost the same speed it goes up. Any firearm's bullet is lethal even on it's way down. So if you feel the need to fire a warning shot, shoot into the ground. If you shoot into the air you can kill somebody a mile or more away.
 
In response to yomama's question of "What laws protect citizens' animals? I know there are some, and would defend my puppy."

I don't know where you currently reside but here in TX you can use deadly force on attacking dogs. I think they recently revamped an old law after another pit attack. It's a shame that such great dogs get a bad image from moron handlers.

A friend of mine recently had his dog attacked in his own backyard (its a new house so he is without a fence) by an enraged pit and defended his dog by hitting the attacking dog with a shovel. It took quite a few swings to persaude the beast to run off. Long story short, the determination of the pit was quite an eye-opener and he's on his way to getting his carry permit
 
Yeah I think he is right on that. It has to do with the teriminal velocity and it isn't high enough to fatally wound someone. Albeit, I'm sure it hurts like hell.
 
Nope. How can a .22LR fired into the air at supersonic speeds (faster than the speed of sound) maintain that velocity without any thrust on the way down?

Otherwise, any bullet you fired would fly virtually forever--all it would need would be the initial thrust that discharged it from the muzzle.

When you fire a bullet straight up into the air, it reaches terminal drag and at the point the thrust pushes it no further, it actually stops in midair. Gravity then takes over and pulls it back to earth--but NOT with the same velocity (because there is no thrust to push that velocity) that it went up with.

Jeff
 
Seems everyone has a dog story...Me too. I had my 6mo old Lab heeled up at my side, walking into my favorite fishing spot. As I approached a 50yd meadow just before the Lake, I heard and saw a group of people coming out of the trees across from me. My Lab at that time was perhaps 50lbs. They(a family) had a large Malamute unleashed as my dog was. I controlled mine, they didn't even attempt to control theirs. The Mal made the 50yd dash pretty fast, leapt into the air and was coming down upon my dog all fangs and snarls when my size 10 backflipped him off of my dog. He whelped his way back to his family. I heeled my dog back up and continued walking. I honestly thought they would say something to me then as we passed but they didn't even look at me and Dad had the Mal by the collar.
While I don't care for the more aggressive breeds and would never own them, it ultimately comes down to the owners' and their responsibility in my book. I'm kinda glad I didn't have a weapon that day as I might have just used it. Shotguns are effective on Rottweillers in your yard though.
elkman
 
If a dog attacks me or my dog its game over. It has to be a serious attack with no other way to end it. I maced a neighbors dog as it bit my dog in th ass and was snapping at me. It was a pit mix. if that did not work i was going to shoot it. the owner came out as his dog was going crazy with the mace and told me, well i hope that teaches him. It did not and he would up shooting it himself. Pits have attacked and killed sever in minneapolis this year and tore up several other people really badly. I wont say all pits are bad but there is the instinct thing that is in them. Just like Labs like water pits can be mean at the drop of a hat. when a pit does go bad they are a problem as pain just does not bother them. The mace did but i have seen them take a bad bad beating and not have it bother them at all.
 
The courts are full of people being sued because their sweet dog that would never bite did in fact bite and cause injury to someone.

If you are a dog owner there is always a risk, be it small, your dog can get spooked and bite. Dog owners who don't think it could never happen to them are living in a fantasy world.
 
I live in a rural environment and was staying at my inlaws house while me and my wife were looking to buy. My inlaws live in the middle of a field with pasture all around, therefore there are dogs that "free roam". One morning I wake up to the sound of barking and growling coming out the bedroom window. I go outside and my father-in-law is squared off 10 yards away from a great piranees (spelling?). After a quick trip back in the house, I left the dog's owner picking #7 bird shot from the dogs hind quarters... haven't seen it since.

There are a couple of rotweillers that are fenced up across a pond in our front yard... they got out once and pinned my father-in-law in his truck for a while.

Needless to say I am not a dog person and while not looking for a reason to kill one, I won't hesitate to put one down if it so much as growls at me on my own property.
 
"Pits have attacked and killed sever in minneapolis this year and tore up several other people really badly. I wont say all pits are bad but there is the instinct thing that is in them. Just like Labs like water pits can be mean at the drop of a hat. when a pit does go bad they are a problem as pain just does not bother them."

GET READY FOR RANT!!!!

I'm sorry, but there are no dog species in the world that are inheritly bad, mean and/or immune from pain. I've said it before and I'll say it again " there ar NO bad dogs just bad owners", of course the execption are wild dogs - just like any other animal in the world a dog will do what it feels is necesary to survive-. I'm also sick of hearing about how pits and boxers and rotties can "turn on you " at the drop of a hat or at a " certain age ". I've owned each many times over - bottom line is, if a dog attacks suddenly, it's likely caused by a few reasons - fear, trained that way, diseased, or it had no other choice - i.e. it was cornered and or made to fight.

pits have such a NASTY and VIOLENT reputation because they look mean, therefore every joe six pack or teddy toughnuts CHOOSE to make a pit mean and tough- to uphold their ego of beig a "bad ass" - BLAME STUPID OWNERS- NOT THE BREED!!!!!!

also as a side note, i've see way more mean and violent SMALL dogs than large ones! the difference is that they don't look tough, so the above mentioned types of P.O.S owners don't use them for their ego.

rant over, i appologize :cool:
 
I agree with you BB85. I own a Rottweiler, and I'm surprised to see that some of the people who recognize the futility of banning "assault weapons" are willing to make blanket statements about certain breeds. Statements that are based on urban myths and have no basis in fact.

That having been said, and in keeping with the tactics theme, here's another tip for dog walkers. A small spade, about three feet long, the kind they make for kids, is a great poop scooper and aggressive dog deterrent.
 
Another Pit Bull rant. OK, I give up... I'll go down and kill Snoop because folks tell me he'll "turn" on me some day. I'd best get rid of the cat also because she might smother a baby. And the dangerous SUV has to go because it's causing the earth to warm and I'm going to turn in all my guns because, as we all know, guns kill. I'll feel much safer now that I've acceded to all the silly press and urban legends. Next, I think I'll vote for Barack Obama because he's offering me HOPE.
 
this looks to be turning into a discussion about pitbulls so:

sick of hearing about how pits and boxers and rotties can "turn on you "
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Again with the boxers!!??

pits have such a NASTY and VIOLENT reputation because they look mean, therefore every joe six pack or teddy toughnuts CHOOSE to make a pit mean and tough- to uphold their ego of beig a "bad ass" - BLAME STUPID OWNERS- NOT THE BREED!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Pit bulls have been selectively bred to be killers - a short muscular frame with powerful jaws that wont let go. Couple that with a short fuse or an aggressive temperament and that is a recipe for trouble. Nobody can argue they were not bred to have these traits. If you have any doubt these dogs are designed to fight just look at their heads.

Heres a good one that just happened the other day
http://kstp.com/article/stories/S393941.shtml?cat=1
If you don't feel like looking at the story I'll sum it up:
70 yr old woman walking dog, pit attacks, bites her, kills her dog.

To keep this gun related, I think Pit bulls are the Glock of the dog world.
They are not real expensive
They are all over the place, at least in this neighborhood.
They are very popular with certain demographics.
They are ultra relaible (Glock can be counted on to always go bang, Pit can be counted on to always do horrific damage to whatever it decides to bite)
It's never the dog/gun, it's the owner (reloaded too hot, limp wristed it, shot a lead bullet, cleaned it wrong, etc; mistreated the dog, made eye contact, didn't have an authoritative enough voice when giving commands, etc.)
They are perfect in every way (Glock is the finest firearm ever produced: Pits are the friendliest breed you'll ever meet, good for everything from frolicking at the park to babysitting your 2 year old while you run to the store);)

Boxers on the other hand I believe are the Sig Sauer of the dog world, but this is getting long so -
good night all
 
Pit bulls, boxers, rotties...

.... shepherds, ridgebacks, dobies...

One thing they have in common is that if they choose to bite, they will do more damage than, say, a cocker, beagle, shih tzu...

And sorry, guys, but pits were bred for a higher aggression level than most breeds possess, for many years. That said, I like pits a lot, and if I could have adopted this one little female a year ago, I would have.

Dobies were bred for aggression, too, intended as a fast modification of the rottweiler for use in security work.

These days, there are a majority of breeders who have worked hard at breeding down the aggression levels of their dogs. It is not hard to find very gentle pits, dobies, rotties, etc. I've met and enjoyed any number of all of those breeds that I would take home in a heartbeat.

There is one common theme I notice in most of the fatal dog attacks, though. In cases I've followed, where the owners have been interviewed, I've only been surprised in less than 20% of the cases, because the vast majority of those owners have met the stereotype that I have usually encountered when I run across a vicious dog: late teen to mid 30's gangstas and gangsta wannabes, and various partially toothless rednecks.

These are the same guys who put boat anchor chain collars on their dogs, or ridiculously spiked, thick leather.

I don't usually see pits like my neighbor's, who has a stuffed Bugs Bunny toy that she carries around like a security blanket, make the news. I have several friends who have small kids and a boxer, or small kids and a rottie. No problems. The dogs are very protective of those kids, though.

With my Catahoula, and before that with the Rott/Shep, I trained them early. Pulled them around by their ears, noses, tails. Stuck my hand in their mouths, pulled them around by upper or lower jaw. Grapped their feet, poked their foreheads. Took food out of their mouths.

I wasn't being mean. But when my godson, or the neighborhood kids, or the kids at the dogpark would approach my dogs, there was nothing within reason they could do that would elicit a violent response. In other words, if my dog were to bite you, odds are that I would find cause to attack you, too, because you really would have had to do something.

As far as kids go, though, I have to wonder what some parents are thinking. I've had one parent let his diaper-wearing toddler approach my rott/shep without asking me, or even letting me know - dog was on leash, attached to a beach chair. Next thing I know, a baby has tackled my dog around the neck. Luckily, the dog just licked the kid. I was ready to tear the father a new one....

Had another neighbor decide to let my Catahoula out of his outdoor pen while I was at work (he's an indoor dog when I'm home, but he used to get destructive when I was gone, so...) She thought he looked lonely, and her 4YEAR OLD DAUGHTER wanted to play with him...

Those were two attacks that did not happen, but could you have faulted the dogs?

Cheers,

M
 
and I'm surprised to see that some of the people who recognize the futility of banning "assault weapons" are willing to make blanket statements about certain breeds. Statements that are based on urban myths and have no basis in fact.
Click to expand...

I find that statement amusing and disturbing all at once.

Pittbulls are weapons. Millions of dollars and millions of hours have been spent on them to that end. It is called breeding. Pittbulls were breed to be fighters/killers.

Breeding is not a myth or an urban legend. Breeding is a concerted and conscious long term effort to bring certain qualities and characteristics in a dog forward and to reduce or eliminate other "unwanted" characteristics. Breeding is why the chihuahua exists today when all dogs descend from the wolf. Breeding has created undeniable temperaments and predilections in certain dogs and to call that myth or urban legend is self-deceiving.
 
To all those idiots who say boxers, pitbulls, etc can "turn on you" this is for you.

You say they have more powerful jaws.

You say they are "bred to be killers"

You say it has a menacing look.

You say we should ban them.

Sounds like a bunch of Zumboism in here.

I guess that would be the ban the evil, powerful, "built for killing" black rifle/dog mentality.

Fact is, unless the owner can produce papers on an animal, the "evil looking dog" isn't a pitbull at all, but rather a mutt with lineage from SEVERAL possible different breeds, some of them "more evil" than the others.

I would say that 99% of all so called "pitbull" attacks were not pitbull attacks at all, but attacks by dogs of unknown or undocumented heritage.

Therefore, by that logic, mutts are far and away the most aggressive dogs.

Honestly though, the meanest dogs I have ever seen were the ones on the end of a chain.

Having a powerful animal of any type brings responsibility. Me and the other pitbull lovers here shouldn't have to lecture all you firearms owners about being responsible as it's already discussed AD NAUSEUM as it relates to gun ownership.

So go ahead, bash the breed in your Zumboesque ignorance and "All pitbulls are bad dogs" bullcrap. Seeing as how I've owned and bred these dogs before and haven't had my dogs (or any other registered pit) "turn" on me I guess that will make you pitbull haters a bunch of liars to boot.

Yeah, I been watching this thread a while and I thought I'd clue you in.

Fortunately, there were a couple other level headed people here so this thread didn't go completely out of control. But I'm sure the mad ignorance will continue.

Like I said, the meanest dogs are the breed on the end of a chain.

So go ahead, cast your vote to ban the "evil looking assault dog".

Morons.
 
Sorry guys -- I kept watching this hoping that it would stay at least within shouting distance of on-topic, but it did not.

Closed.

pax
 
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