Does Warrantless GPS Tracking of People by the Police Violate the Fourth Amendment??

Well then...isnt attaching GPS tracking devices to property to track individual citizens also "too specific"?
Click to expand...


Noooo, an individual has to be individually tracked or arrested, otherwise, we've have to track everyone which is kind of the thing we're trying to avoid. An individual does not have to be separately and individually protected on a minute by minute basis and certainly not by the FEDERAL government.

And yes, I have read the Constitution of the United States. Notice the captial C?
Click to expand...

also, yes, as a proper noun it should be capitalized. I apologize to the "C"onstitution for my gross indiscretion.:rolleyes:;)
 
So are you saying the police should not investigate suspected on going criminal enterprises like drug trafficing, child porn or even child abuse because to investigate it the cops would have to assume some level of guilt.
Click to expand...

No, I am saying that the police investigate crime. The police must eventually convince a judge somewhere along the line to issue a warrant in order to cross the line of the Right To Privacy so that they can gather physical evidence where the expectation of privacy exists. This should include attaching an electronic device on an indivual's property in order to track the wherabouts of that individual.
 
We're definitely getting of course from my argument. I'm not arguing right or wrong, I'm arguing that it is not a violation of the 4th Amendment.

Right or Wrong is another law. 4th Amendment deals specifically and solely with unreasonable search or seizure. Tailing a car does not qualify under the 4th Amendment no matter how it is done, no matter right or wrong. It's not a 4th Amendment issue IMO.
 
You have to look at gain verses loss, is the gain of a warrant-less GPS device greater then any loss that might occur?

I personally believe if there is enough suspension to place a GP on a suspects car, then getting a warrant shouldn't be too difficult - but I also don't think anything is really lost if warrants aren't required. I have nothing to hide and nothing the government would be interested in.
 
So, you're saying that the right to privacy have nothing to do with 4th Amendment which deals specifically and solely with unreasonable search or seizure? And that a GPS tracker placed surreptitiously on your car without a warrant is not a violation of your expectation to privacy?
 
The vast majority of newer cars are ALUMINUM. As such, you (they?) could not just put one on your car with magnets. That means that would be much easier to detect while they install one.

Second, the GPS unit is NOT inexpensive. They would need something more than just suspicion to warrant spending that much money.

Third, this approaches tin foil hat time. The police do NOT waste their time on people that do not have a history of doing wrong or are not caught in the act of doing wrong. The only people that need have concern are those that are currently, or intend to, break the law.
 
The ONLY purpose of the federal government is to protect the lives and interests of the people.
Click to expand...
Actually, it was much more narrow than that, and amounted to creating a free trade zone and mutual protection pact among the states. But that discussion belongs in another thread

Tailing a car does not qualify under the 4th Amendment no matter how it is done, no matter right or wrong. It's not a 4th Amendment issue IMO.
Click to expand...
Cars don't go anywhere interesting, but people do, which brings me back to my earlier question: how about sticking a tracking device in your clothing? Wouldn't that be the same as sticking it on your car?
 
The police do NOT waste their time on people that do not have a history of doing wrong or are not caught in the act of doing wrong. The only people that need have concern are those that are currently, or intend to, break the law.
Click to expand...

Clearly you have not spent enough time surfing the net looking for conspiracies or watched enough movies pertaining thereto.;):D
You MUST bring yourself outside the cold, boring reality of real life and engage with the Lumina-tee(sp?)
 
The police aren't going to install a GPS tracker on just anyone. They will have a reason for doing so. So if it helps them catch the drug dealer that is peddling drugs to the local high school, I'm all for it. Why not?

On the other hand, I don't feel that I would be breaking any laws if I installed a GPS tracker on all the local LE vehicles. Suspicious...very. But not breaking any laws. Would it be illegal for me to follow around a cop car, not in persuit? Not sure, but why not?

For those that are in dead opposition, why? Are you breaking laws that you don't want the police tracking you? Maybe you should stop. If you are not a criminal, then why oppose something that will save tax payer dollars, be more effencient, and aid in stopping crime. Unless you are a criminal.

When/If I become a criminal, I will most deffinately oppose anything of this nature that will aid in my capture.
 
I'm going to say that a warrant should be obtained before attaching a tracking device.
Well if you're looking for reasons to panic, DC police are now getting readers to scan everyone's license plates to see who's on the watch lists and who's driving a stolen car.
Click to expand...
I have no problem with that. It's reading something that is .gov issued and is reading it for the purpose that it was issued. Here in Tucson, the PDs catch all sorts of stolen vehicles that the little thugs like to stash in mall parking lots.
 
I'm going to say that a warrant should be obtained before attaching a tracking device.
Well if you're looking for reasons to panic, DC police are now getting readers to scan everyone's license plates to see who's on the watch lists and who's driving a stolen car.
Click to expand...
I have no problem with that. It's reading something that is .gov issued and is reading it for the purpose that it was issued. Here in Tucson, the PDs catch all sorts of stolen vehicles that the little thugs like to stash in mall parking lots.
Click to expand...
That, and license plates are placed on owners' vehicles with their knowledge and consent.
 
Well if you're looking for reasons to panic, DC police are now getting readers to scan everyone's license plates to see who's on the watch lists and who's driving a stolen car.
Click to expand...


The police in my area of rural upstate NY have had plate reader cameras on their cars for several years.
I never had a car that was illegal so what do I care? The cameras find suspended registrations, stolen car, amber alert cars, etc.
 
wcpexpert said:
If you are not a criminal, then why oppose something that will save tax payer dollars, be more effencient, and aid in stopping crime.
Click to expand...

It costs time and taxpayer money to fool with warrants to do wiretaps, so why not dispense with warrants in that area as well?
 
The police aren't going to install a GPS tracker on just anyone. They will have a reason for doing so. So if it helps them catch the drug dealer that is peddling drugs to the local high school, I'm all for it. Why not?
Click to expand...

Because your premise is incomplete and your reasoning is overbroad. The police do all sorts of things sometimes for little reason or no good reason. Unreasonable searches could also catch a drug-dealer, but that isn't a sound argument in their favor.
 
For those that are in dead opposition, why? Are you breaking laws that you don't want the police tracking you? Maybe you should stop. If you are not a criminal, then why oppose something that will save tax payer dollars, be more effencient, and aid in stopping crime. Unless you are a criminal.
Click to expand...

Wow. Does it get any more myopic than that? Time to crack open the history books.
 
The vast majority of newer cars are ALUMINUM. As such, you (they?) could not just put one on your car with magnets. That means that would be much easier to detect while they install one.

Second, the GPS unit is NOT inexpensive. They would need something more than just suspicion to warrant spending that much money.
Click to expand...

The installation issue is simply a matter of access or patience. As for the cost of tracking units, any precedent set now regarding them will last long beyond the point where they become much cheaper.

For those that are in dead opposition, why? Are you breaking laws that you don't want the police tracking you? Maybe you should stop. If you are not a criminal, then why oppose something that will save tax payer dollars, be more effencient, and aid in stopping crime. Unless you are a criminal.
Click to expand...

And summary executions would be cheaper, more efficient, and save in stopping crime as well...definitely easier than a trial by a jury of your peers.

Luckily we don't need to ride that slippery slope nearly that far to point out the absurdity of your argument. As zukiphile and publius point out, the warrant requirement for searches probably costs us quite a bit of money and lets many, many criminals wander free. So cost efficiency and putting criminals behind bars are obviously not our only concerns.

Well, those of us that dig freedom at least.

Allot of paranoia going on here :eek:
Click to expand...

Yes, but the idea that firearms registration will lead to JBTs breaking down your door to take your guns is just common sense, m i rite?

Out of curiosity, of those who don't think that warrants should be required for GPS tracking, how many would support 100% mandatory by-firearm registration? I mean, if you're not doing anything wrong it shouldn't be an issue, so I figure none of you should have any issue with it.
 
In my state we already have to register our guns, its not a big deal. I see no problem with fire-arm registration.

I think controlling and keeping track of fire-arms is the best way to prevent future fire-arm bans.
 
Allot of paranoia going on here
Click to expand...

Hardly. This is a question that has such relevance today as ever. The NSA's Wire tapping and the Patriot Act coming into existence. The FBI during the 60's and 70's and their Counter Intelligence Program (COINTELPRO) are just a few examples of government run amok.

I could go on, but suffice it say, this is not paranoia. It is history. The government which we hold so dear is not above conducting illegal acts and that is why a level of transparency as outlined by the Constitution is required in order to prevent a corruption to take control.

In my state we already have to register our guns, its not a big deal. I see no problem with fire-arm registration.

I think controlling and keeping track of fire-arms is the best way to prevent future fire-arm bans.
Click to expand...

Wow. I will let others take it from here...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top