Does bedding and floating always (or at least almost always) help?

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2DaMtns

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I recently acquired a Remington 788 in 243. You all realize they have a reputation as really good shooters. My first three shots with it were from a pretty solid rest (a Caldwell 7 rest set up on top of a portable shooting bench) at 100 yards with the no name fixed 4x scope that came on it. I was shooting the cheapest ammo the gun store had (PPU Partisan 100gr). The first three shots grouped under an inch. The groups opened up as the barrel warmed up, and I messed around with it out to 2 and 300 yards, so I haven't repeated it yet, but I feel the group shows its potential.

I'm going to put a Timney trigger in it and get a different scope for sure, and try a couple different ammos. My real question is if bedding the action and floating the barrel is a near guarantee to improve accuracy. I hear some rifles shoot better with some upward pressure on the barrel from the forend, and I certainly don't want to risk screwing it up. I of course won't do any of that before I do the trigger, mount a new scope, and try some other ammo. I'm seeking input to see if anyone has ever regretted bedding and floating. Thanks in advance.
 

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I had gotten my daughter a first gen Weatherby Vangard in 243.
Did the 1 MOA for first 3 rounds no problem.
Then group size would open up exponentially for every 3 rounds after that.
You could let the rifle sit for an hour, made no difference.
Overnite first group 1 MOA.

I bedded, floated, tried folded cardboard between forearm and barrel. Nothing made a difference.

Only rifle was glad to see go. She traded for a bow.
 
With sporter weight or heavier barrels free floating never hurts. It may, or may not help. On that rifle a generous free float shouldn't hurt anything. I'd do it and see what happens.

Thinner barrels often shoot better with some pressure on the barrel or even full length bedded. There are some knowledgeable people who full length bed the barrel regardless and get good results. I think the quality of the work done by someone skilled is the key. But full length bedding of the barrel is much less common than it used to be.

Bedding the action isn't a bad idea, especially on a wood stocked rifle. But I don't think that is a DIY project for the average guy. Free floating a barrel is. I'd start with the barrel and see what happens before spending money to bed the action.
 
I've had three or four rifles that were five-shot one-MOA or better, box stock. My two pet hunting rifles, however, only became sub-MOA after free-floating and a very-low-pressure shim at the tip of the forearm.

The barrels of all but one were light- or medium-sporter.
 
I would try some better ammo first and a better scope which you said you were going to get. Shoot slowly with cooling between shots and see what happens. 1 Step at a time will give you your best ideas on what to do next..I really think you will find a huge difference with the Timney trigger..
 
The last 788 that I did belongs to a nephew, which he inherited from his deceased Dad.

He and the rifle are the same age, both born in 1974.

The first thing I did was to remove his defunct scope and remove the action screws. I set it in a vice and setup two dial indicators to see how much movement was in the action and barrel assembly in relation to the stock.

It had more slop that any bolt gun that I have worked on. I measured something like 0.115" movement front to back indicating that the recoil lug was doing nothing.

After I finished, the movement was not detectable.

The trigger was fine so I cleaned it up and gave it a tiny bit of lube with a hypodermic syringe.

End result was that the rifle would put 10 shots into a 3/8" group. I did not let the barrel heat up more than 10 degrees over ambient while testing. The grouping was repeatable at least three times by me on different days.
 
Great advice from all. In most things, I believe in only changing one thing at a time, so my plan is:

1) Install Timney trigger, shoot the same cheap ammo.

2) Try a few different boxes of ammo to see if it shoots anything noticeably better.

3) Mount a better scope, repeat groups with whatever ammo worked best in step 2.

4) Float the barrel, shoot same ammo.

5) Decide if there's any point in doing anything further.
 
I've owned 7 rifles, mostly Remington and Winchester. All with wooden stocks shot 1" groups and would open up after a few shots.

Bedding fixed every one of those rifles and brought groups to about 1/2" continually. Most with synthetic stocks needed nothing except for a 700 SPS. The cheap stock on the SPS was horrible, it took a B&C Medalist to get that rifle under 1".

I had one Savage, a model 12 VSS with free floated Choate stock and fluted barrel that refused to keep groups under 1". I spent 6 months trying to cut sizes down before giving up on it.

I'm a firm believer in bedding and free floating.
 
I got a Timiny for a 788, never do that again. There is probably gonna be a pin that come's out the left side that you just have to know is there but the thing won't work until you free it up on that side. I'd got the trigger because the bolt stop on the factory one broke. Guess what, the bolt stop that came with it did the same thing. Called Timiny and they sent out another. Problem with it was it was to long and I couldn't get the bolt in without removing the trigger and that couldn't get it out without removing the trigger. The direction's that came with it failed to mentioning these problem's and how to work around them. First and last custom trigger.
 
I've always found that different ammo can make a significant change. Then step by step try other variables .
A light barrel whips some when fired .Make sure those light barrels have generous clearance so it never touches the fore end.
However you do it make sure the receiver is not flexed when screws are tight .If flexed it can easily ruin accuracy. This can easily happen with those who think that simple 'bedding ' cures things .No it must provide unstressed bedding.
 
Forgot to mention on the bedding. I have bedded the barrel full length years ago, worked great. For some reason I quit and went to bedding just a couple inch's in frone of the action. Today I bed the recoil lug and rear tang. Word of caution about bedding under the barrel in front of the action a couple inch's. The bedding need's to be straight across of the gun will throw bullet's all over the place. I went to bedding just the recoil lug and rear tang after a tour of the Nosler plant in Bend. Where they do or did their testing they had a rifle set up the shoot. First thing I noticed was there was no stock on it! It was nothing more than a barrel screwed into an action set in some kind of vive and the barrel just hung off the action. Been doing my rifle's similar to that ever since and it work's well for me!
 
"...bedding and floating..." Bedding does. It makes the stock and metal more of a single thing. If nothing else it will help make your rifle more consistent. It will not make it more accurate.
Floating may or may not. Floating guarantees absolutely nothing. Some rifles like it, some do not. Even 2 788's will be different. The only way to find out if your's does is to try it. If accuracy doesn't improve, putting a pressure point back in isn't a big deal. Takes a dab, literally, of bedding material an inch or so aft of the end of the forestock.
However, before you do anything, run a dollar bill under the barrel to the chamber end. That'll tell you what you have now. Your 788 sounds like the barrel is very close to the stock. You can open the channel a bit by sanding, then sealing. And trying it like that.
788's tend to shoot really well as is, but the inside of the stock will benefit from sealing against moisture. Causes the stock to expand and extract by humidity alone. Any wood sealer will do.
No bedding the barrel full length. Bedding goes out as far as the chamber area of the barrel and no more.
"...there was no stock on it!..." Typical of universal receivers used for testing loads in most ballistics labs.
 
It has to be done right, its not easy, trial and error until you learn.

The one I have was done by my brother who likes that stuff (and is good at it)

The one Savage I have in a Boyds Light TH stock needed none and the fit on the other TH was just fine.

At least my level, somplaces under 3/4 MOA, no. But that is Boyds stocks and they are very good fits.
 
I had a .243 M70 Featherweight that ...nothing...(except selling it) would fix.

Floated, bedded, whacked and whanged, it would group great but NEVER would put that first cold shot anywhere near the point of aim.

I grew to despise that gun.:mad:
 
The rifle is doing fine.
Don't worry about it.

But, if you must...
(Sometimes we just have to mess with stuff...)
The 788 would probably respond well to action bedding and free-floating the barrel.
I, personally, wouldn't throw a trigger at it until after the other work was done, but that's just me being a cheapskate (do the cheap stuff first).
 
Pillars! If you are going to bed, then install pillars, cheap & easy.
Get yourself a torque wrench or screwdriver (about 60 INCH pounds is all you need).
This ensures youdo screw up tightening action screws after the time & trouble of bedding.

Torque screwdrivers will ensure your optics mounts are plugged into place correctly and you aren't bending or ovaling the tube.

Free float barrel depends on skinny barrel, medium weight (varmint), or heavy barrel.
Skinny barrels often need preload to keep them honest.
This can be determined by wrapping tape around the barrel just inside the end of the forearm.
Start with a few wraps (2 or 3) and work up until harmonics are dampened, then you have an idea of where to start your preload thickness.

Unless you just want an aftermarket trigger, try adjusting the factory trigger and cleaning up /squaring the sear.
Triggers from Remington can be anywhere from 'Acceptable' to crap, you usually don't know until you adjust the factory trigger & try it out.
 
Whatever your 788 is doing, I think it is not the fault of the trigger. When the Model 788 appeared it's trigger was praised by the experts in Gun Digest, etc. I have owned seven 788s and each one of them had a crisp trigger with good pull and little overtravel. I understand that it is possible yours may have something wrong with it. Timney's website quotes a trigger for the 788 at $145.96, which is about 35% of what you can find a good .243 788 rifle listed for.

It seems your plan is based on one three-shot group . I recommend five more at a bench before doing anything. Comparison with another brand of ammo would be good, also. If the day is not too hot, allow at least one minute between shots of a group, with a five minute cooling period between groups. IMHO, the .243 heats sporter barrels very rapidly.
 
I believe bedding almost always helps. The catch, obviously, is it has to be done right. Doing it right isn't particularly hard. I've done tons, going back to when I was a stupid teenager that didn't realize I needed a release agent. Finally got the stock and action apart on the first rifle i bedded to find that the bedding was stuck to the action. I shot it like that and it shot well enough. Of course it wasn't great. But better than before. i finally removed the bedding from the action and did it again. I've also bedded rifles with straight bondo. It actually works pretty well, still have 2 rifles bedded with bondo and they're shooters. It's honestly a fairly forgiving process but you need to do some research. Some actions do better with no bedding forward of the rear of the recoil lug, while some do better when you make a "pocket" for the recoil lug and bed an inch or two under the chamber as well.

Jeephammer is right that pillar bedding is the "right" way to do it. If you don't have a drill press, or you aren't confident in your ability to drill out for the pillars PERFECTLY verticle, then it is better to not try. Installing pillars isn't hard, but if you screw up its a hard fix. And just simply bedding often does everything you need. If you screw that up all you need is time and sandpaper. I also think pillars are overrated. The recoil lug is there for a reason, let it do its job.

I recently turned a 2.5 moa savage axis into a .7 moa shooter by just stiffening the forearm and bedding the action. Cost me $5 in devcon epoxy and $6 for a steel rod for the forearm. Went to a shooters course and rung 20" steel with it at 1000 yards 2nd round hit, the instructor told me that rifle will never do that again. He stopped making fun of the Wal-Mart rifle after the next 4 rounds also were hits.
 
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5Whiskey,
Pillars correctly position the receiver & allow the recoil lug to position correctly.
Mashing wood or some of the softer synthetic stocks results in the recoil lug being a fulcrum, since bedding makes for the lug bottoming out instead of having an open bottom.
This also screws up any preload you might be using on the barrel...

Mashing stock material, and keeping from bowing the receiver is why I recommend a torque limiting driver of some kind so the action screws get back in with repeatability.
Bedding helps keep from bowing the receiver, but it's half the equation, the torque limiter is the other half, and in some cases will negate the need for bedding.
Bedding will still help, but sometimes the rifle becomes a good enough shooter the owners skips bedding.

I agree a stiff forearm helps!
Keeps forearm from flexing during firing cycle throwing the shot, keeps the forearm from contacting floated barrel & keeps a controllable amount of tension on preloaded barrels.
I'm a HUGE fan of stiff forearms since most of us rest precision rifles on that forearm!
 
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