does anyone believe remington box velocity?

44 AMP said:
A friend of mine was once deeply in love with his .270 Weatherby. Until that homewrecker chronograph show him how he was deceived....

Turns out his 26" Weatherby Magnum, the queen of high velocity, was actually 30fps SLOWER than his 22" Winchester .270. As I recall, he broke up with the Weatherby soon after....:D

Its not that the ammo makers LIE, or anything like that, they don't. What they report is what they get in their test rigs and they have proof to back it up.

But, YOUR gun, and my gun are going to be different than their test rigs, and could be as different from each other as they are from the test guns.

Often the difference is small, so reported data may be used as GUIDELINES in general, but sometimes the difference is large
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I had nearly the same experience with my cousin and his 300 weatherby, it chronographed a couple of hundred fps slower than his weatherby book claimed, at first he blamed my chronograph until we shot my 264wm through it and it was over what factory ammunition was supposed to be a good bit with my handloads.
That has not quelled his enthusiasm for those high gloss stocks and gold triggers one bit though.
I've considered getting a Terra mark in 6.5x300, probably make a fantastic elk rifle.
 
In my old .270 the Win and Rem 130 factory loads shoot more or less same point of aim as mt hand loaded 130 Ballistic Tips. It's a stock Rugger 77, 22" bbl. 8" difference, I'd say bad bedding or bad bbl.
 
I've considered getting a Terra mark in 6.5x300, probably make a fantastic elk rifle.
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A fantastic long range cartridge, for sure. A fantastic elk rifle? Maybe... depends on where and how you hunt elk. And, how good you are. :D

Once met a guy who had just killed his 6th elk with his .243 Winchester. He thought the .243 was a great elk rifle. It was light, carried easily, didn't kick hardly at all, and worked great. It was so good, he was even considering buying a second box of ammunition for it!! :rolleyes: (6 elk taken, he still had half a box of ammo left...)

For HIM it was the perfect elk rifle. He hunted deep timber, longest shots were 90yards or less, and he only took neck shots. This did mean he saw a lot more elk than he would shoot at, and passed up a lot of shots other people would have tried.

can the same barrel length loss from factory test barrel down to 18" make that much of a trajectory change for the remington, IF its going the actual stated box velocity?
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Velocity loss from a shorter barrel will change the trajectory, however, its not the only factor involved, and which factors are dominant depend on the specific individual relationship between your rifle and the ammo used.

Sighted in for ammo A, shoots little groups, cool. Ammo B hits about the same place, also little groups, cool. Ammo R hits 8" low and gives 4" groups? I suspect something other than just a velocity difference is responsible.
 
44 AMP said:
A friend of mine was once deeply in love with his .270 Weatherby. Until that homewrecker chronograph show him how he was deceived....

Turns out his 26" Weatherby Magnum, the queen of high velocity, was actually 30fps SLOWER than his 22" Winchester .270. As I recall, he broke up with the Weatherby soon after....:D

Its not that the ammo makers LIE, or anything like that, they don't. What they report is what they get in their test rigs and they have proof to back it up.

But, YOUR gun, and my gun are going to be different than their test rigs, and could be as different from each other as they are from the test guns.

Often the difference is small, so reported data may be used as GUIDELINES in general, but sometimes the difference is large
Click to expand...
My 270 Wby 26" legitimately bests my 26" 270 Win by 300 FPS and my 22" WSM by 350.
My my 270 Win has a fast barrel.
 
270 Weatherby is definitely of their better cartridges IMO, I'm a big fan of the 270wsm, the one I've loaded for got factory published velocities and a bit more.
What did yours get?
 
Double K said:
I had nearly the same experience with my cousin and his 300 weatherby, it chronographed a couple of hundred fps slower than his weatherby book claimed, at first he blamed my chronograph until we shot my 264wm through it and it was over what factory ammunition was supposed to be a good bit with my handloads.
That has not quelled his enthusiasm for those high gloss stocks and gold triggers one bit though.
I've considered getting a Terra mark in 6.5x300, probably make a fantastic elk rifle.
Click to expand...
I love my 6.5x300. I got the $450V2. Its a tack driver and lives up to "the numbers on the box "
 
Double K said:
270 Weatherby is definitely of their better cartridges IMO, I'm a big fan of the 270wsm, the one I've loaded for got factory published velocities and a bit more.
What did yours get?
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I never got within 150 fps of published. Start getting pressure signs well before max on most powders.
Pretty much same story in 2 rifles. One is a tc venture. One is a 77 Win with a Remington factory 270 wsm barrel. (Long story) the Win/Remington is faster than the Venture.
 
Double K said:
With the right bullet that's a legitimate 500yd rifle, probably 400yd gun in a full on Wyoming wind hunt where most people stay in the coffee shop.
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Its a legitimate 800 yard hunting rifle. (In theory of course. I dont care to have the ethics debate for the thousandth time.)
 
reynolds357 said:
Its a legitimate 800 yard hunting rifle. (In theory of course. I dont care to have the ethics debate for the thousandth time.)
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I was basing my 500yd figure on a maximum point blank range, hold center of animal and your assured to hit out to 500yds assuming everything else is done right.
I get nervous about any shots past 350yds myself regardless of cartridge, time of flight starts entering into the equation and shooter error which can be a problem in the field unless the circumstances are perfect. I've shot a few antelope and one deer that were farther but I didn't enjoy the experience, I like 99% shots not I'm pretty sure shots.
 
Double K said:
I was basing my 500yd figure on a maximum point blank range, hold center of animal and your assured to hit out to 500yds assuming everything else is done right.
I get nervous about any shots past 350yds myself regardless of cartridge, time of flight starts entering into the equation and shooter error which can be a problem in the field unless the circumstances are perfect. I've shot a few antelope and one deer that were farther but I didn't enjoy the experience, I like 99% shots not I'm pretty sure shots.
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I used to do the max pbr thing, but with laser range finders and exposed turret scopes. I now range and dial.
The only way I shoot over 400 is if I am basically hunting with great rest set up. I wont do it off a stand rail.
 
Most of the long shots on game I take are in the flat prairie where mirage really makes laser rangefinders difficult to get a reading from hence the mpbr reliance.
Before laser rangefinders I used the reticle in a duplex scope to estimate range, sometimes I wonder if that wasn't a better.
Prone with a bi-pod is my favorite in the field long range set up, I say that now but I haven't laid down on one of those little barrel cactus in a couple of years!
 
Double K said:
Most of the long shots on game I take are in the flat prairie where mirage really makes laser rangefinders difficult to get a reading from hence the mpbr reliance.
Before laser rangefinders I used the reticle in a duplex scope to estimate range, sometimes I wonder if that wasn't a better.
Prone with a bi-pod is my favorite in the field long range set up, I say that now but I haven't laid down on one of those little barrel cactus in a couple of years!
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Most of my hunting is in cooler weather, so I have never had mirage be a factor so bad that it messed up laser. You got me thinking. Next hot day I am going to go play with the laser range finder. I have never really used one in a mirage situation.
 
I've read that the newest model from Sig sauer is supposed to have solved lots of those issues but at 1500.00 I'm not rushing out to buy one.
I paid almost 300.0 for the last Bushnell I bought which was supposed to be good to 1k, it's not, pretty good to 500 under good conditions.
They work really well out of tree stands, when it's cold outside and for archery hunting.
I use it for airgunning on a weekly basis, fantastic for that application.

btw what model do you have R357?
 
PocketCamera said:
does anyone believe remington box velocity?
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Yes. If fired in a SAAMI spec test barrel mounted in a test fixture.

According to SAAMI's ammo tests in different barrels, 308 Winchester ammo velocity changes about 25 fps for every inch of barrel length. Ammunition tested subsequent to manufacture using equipment and procedures conforming to SAAMI's guidelines can be expected to produce velocities within a tolerance of ±90 fps of the tabulated values.

I've seen a 50 fps velocity spread across 3 people shooting the same rifle and ammo.
 
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Referring to the very original post, I may have gone through the same exercise almost a year ago before I finally realized Remington pulled a fast one. Be sure to check the box label because Remington Express Core-Lokt is about 300 FPS slower in .270 130 grain PSP compared to the original Core-Lokt. I found one retailer that stated the Express 130 grain PSP is 2710 FPS compared to 3050 FPS stated in the Remington ballistic chart. If your ammunition states Express I would suspect that the FPS is slower and eight inches low may be the trajectory path.
 
It is odd that gun makers use one length for velocity loistings and a shorter barrel on MOST ALL guns made--24" vs 26" or 22" vs 24".

Very misleadnig and approching fraud.
 
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