Does anyone actually like 11-87 design?

O

Oleg Volk

Staff Alumnus
I am thinking of getting an 11-87P (ghost ring sight, short barrel) over a Benelli M1. I hope to gain lower recoil and simpler manual of arms. I talked to one local shooter who said that he'd changed the infamous gasket once in five years, after firing about 4 thousand rounds.

I am looking for both good and bad info on the 18-87 design in general and on the P version in specific. Does anyone know how is is different from the SP?

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Oleg "peacemonger" Volk

http://www.a-human-right.com
http://www.olegvolk.net
 
Having been a fan/shooter of Remington SG's for 15+ years I will take a stab at your post. I have an 11-87P (Vang comped) with MMC ghostring sights that is my primary shotgun. I also have a 1100 that I have used for everything from skeet to 3-gun matches.

I have had excellent performance/service through the years from both of these and have no problems reccomending them. For a rugged reliable SG they are hard to beat. One of the reasons I like the 11-87P is it handles recoil much better than the Benelli.

There will be allot of people who say the Benelli is the best and it is a good SG but I am not convinced of that. To give you an idea of how I feel about the two. I also own a Benelli M3S90 and it sits in my safe while my 11-87P is used all the time.

I might be able to help you with the difference between the regular 11-87's and the SP or P models. I asked that same question to the guys at Vang Comp about my P and I will assume it is the same with the SP version. They said the the P version is "beefed up" to handle a steady diet of heavier loads. The regular 11-87 has a gas regulating system to make it work with lighter loads. Vang Comp said these parts are removed in the P version because they assume that these guns will only be fired with heavier buck type loads. My 11-87P has a marking on the barrel that says only heavy loads should be used in the SG but my 1 oz. 3+ dram reloads work fine in it.
 
While I don't own the shotgun in question, I do own a Gunsite modified Remington 1187. The shotgun started life as an "SP" and was worked over with a shortened barrel, Vang Comp and, MMC Ghost Ring sight among other options. This shotgun is a delight to use and relatively soft on the shoulder with stout loads.

Compared to the Benelli, you will notice a different "balance" and "liveliness" in the hand. With a lot of shooting to build skill, you may notice the 1187 cycles a little slower (are trying to clean bowling pins from a table?).

I shoot my Remington "Vang Comp'ed" 1187 a lot. The Benelli is a dust collector in my safe.

Sid
 
Does anyone knoew WHERE I could buy an 11-87P. They seem to be hardly mentioned on-line and no one stocks the gun.
 
Oleg. The only time I saw an 11-87 at a tactical shotgun class, it choked continually. I know that is not exactly scientific. However, I have 3 Benelli's. I have owned 870s in the past. I would not own any other shotgun for defensive purposes. I have been to classes with all sorts of guns. The Benellis rulled. For me, end of story. Good luck to you. This is just my opinion.
 
The Benelli is a very fine shotgun. It is supposed to have the fastest action cyclic time and I believe that is true. However between the Benelli M1 Super 90 and the Remington 1100/11-87, rapid aimed shots are more a result of the shooter than the action cycling rate. I shoot a couple of 1100's. My buddy has been rubbing my nose in the "fastest Cycle time" BS for years. We had a defensive shotgun training class this fall and he brought it up again in the class. I finally had enough and challenged him to an aimed fire shoot off. We each loaded eight rounds in our shotguns. He went first. He dumped all eight rounds on target in 1.74 seconds from the beep. I was able to duplicate the feat in 1.58 seconds with my Remingtom 100 synthetic, which cost me $400, new.
I have consistently cleaned a two tier, five bowling pin table in the 2.21 second range and a three table-two tier, eight pepper popper, setup in 4.21 seconds
When you have to control the recoil for aimed shots the 1100/11-87 is a softer shooting firearm. It is easier to shoot fast.
Training and practice are more important than cyclic rate.
 
Just another totally unscientific observation, but during one 3 gun match, literally every single 1100 or 11-87 that I saw choked at least once, with two 11-87s choking rather often during an intensive course of fire.

This may not mean anything, because I do not know how well the guns' respective owners cleaned their weapons, but if it is indicative of the 11-87's performance, it does not bode well.

As a counterpoint, I did not observe any failures with the Benelli M1 Super 90s that I've seen as of yet.

Personally, it is irrelevant to me, as I use pump-action shotguns, but if I were getting a semi-auto, I will buy an M1 Super 90 over an 11-87.
 
Oleg,
Gibbs Rifle Company had some used 11-87Ps a while back (like 2-3 years), and Bob Swanson sells them for around 600-650 in issues of GunList (last time that I had checked).
I like my 11-87P, but I don't shoot it very often, nor do I go for rapid fire type shooting. Mine has not had any problems with failures to feed, fire, or extract, and I have used a good deal of non-magnum rounds. The only comment on it not mentioned is that my 21" barrel gun is quite heavy compared to a Benelli.
 
Anyplace would do. Trap+25m at Moon Valley or indoors at Robbinsdale would do. Call me and let me know what time would work.
 
When my department switched from 870s to 11-87s I was pleasantly suprised the first time I shot one. Recoil was virtually nonexistent with buckshot, and slugs were a joy to shoot. The 870 is a fine shotgun, but given a choice I'd prefer an 11-87 over any other shotgun because it's such a pussycat to shoot.

I don't recall any chronic reliability problems with our 11-87s. Our armorers maintained them well.

Call Hans Vang at Vang Comp and see if he has any 11-87Ps in stock. If yes, order one through your local gun dealer. Or if you want a stock 11-87P your dealer should be able to locate one for you from a distributor.

Good luck.

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/s/ Shawn Dodson
Firearms Tactical Institute
http://www.firearmstactical.com
 
I shot a few 3 gun matches in Washington state attended by many Spec War types who brought their Benellis. For the most part they did shoot very well. The last two matches I attended in '99 2 SOF types DNF due to malfunctions in their BEnelli M1 Sup.90. All the Rem.1100 shooters finished without malfunctions( I used 4 shot, 6 &71/5 shot and slugs.). 3- 3gun matches ago I took 2nd place shotgun over 3 other Benelli shooters...Maybe I got lucky?
TR
 
You might want to check www.TacticalForums.com The opinion of the Benelli was not too favorable. Everyone ("operators" included)chose the 870/1187. I have both. If you like hype and spending money go with Benelli. If you want durability and function go Rem 870/1187.

I kinda like Ted Nugent!
 
I don't want to turn this into a Benelli vs. Remington "war," but I'd like to hear more about the Benelli failures. What kind of failure, what was determined to be the cause, were any accessories added to the Benelli?

The reduced recoil of the 11-87 is very nice. I don't think you can go wrong with either gun, but I personally prefer the Benelli M1 Super 90 over the 11-87, after having shot both. The big disadvantage of the Benelli (w/o putting the reliability issue into question) is that the Benelli has more complex manual of arms. I don't know how much I'd have to train to get used to the whole shell lifter thing. The 11-87's manual of arms is more intuitive to me.

Can someone elaborate on what the 11-87's required maintenance schedule should be? Also, what part breaks/gums up/fails/etc. commonly on the 11-87? I know about the O-rings, but in this thread, we see people talking about having no problems w/ the 11-87. It's all very unscientific because we don't know what these various shooters have been shooting in their guns, how long between cleaning, etc.

Sorry for rambling.
 
I gotta nice 870 wingmaster that can get traded for any of those unreliable benellis collecting dust in those safes if anyone is interested?

IMO Benelli is much simpler no gas system very easy to disasemble entire bolt assembley and the recoil dont bug me, so I favor them.

BTW It does have the clay bird record for speed and accuracy with 9 birds in case any of you fast guys wanna take on that old guy thats on TV Sat mornings.

Have 870 and had 1100 and have heard that the 1100 was a better gun than the 1187?
 
Once again, the speed of the Benelli is overrated and in my mind a moot point. There is a big difference in shooting at a tight bunch of clay birds with target shells compared to shooting 00 buck at targets of varying size and distance in a simulated tactical secnario.

Yes, the benelli may be faster when you are concentrating on shooting off the shells as fast as you can but how does that help you in a tactical scenario when you have to move and engage multiple targets? In the 15+ years I have been shooting 1100/11-87's I have never been ready to fire a shot and had to wait becasue the gun cycled so slow. When I was shooting my Benelli M3S90 I got the same results. As far as I am concerned, the "fastest" claim of the Benelli is great for advertising but is worth little else.

All this talk about the Benelli being faster is great but I have never seen anyone prove that it is an advantage over the 1100/11-87 platform. When someone sets up a "life like" tactical scenario and shoots it with "real" ammo, uses a shot timer tactical(not competition) guns and posts the data then I might put some credibility in the "Faster" thing but until then I just consider it advertising.

NJW in AZ
 
Can anyone elaborate on the tales of unreliable Benelli M1s?

I agree w/ NJW in that cyclic speed does not appear to be a disadvantage to the 11-87, although I've seen some IPSC shooters that can take down targets awfully fast and on the move.
 
CleanerPA,
I am one of those IPSC/3-gun type shooters, have been for 15+ years. One thing to remember is they are not necessarily shooting heavy loads and they also have their gun optimized for the game. My open 1100 is ported for recoil reduction and has been reworked to function correctly with lighter loads. Not to mention that it has a 12 round mag extension :).

As far a unreliable Benelli's go, I have personally had some problems with my M3S90 not locking up fully when it started to get dirty, specifically gunk in the bolt locking recesses. I think the rotating locking mechanism is more sensitive to dirt than the 1100/11-87 design. I have cleaned out 3 times the amount of stuff out of my Remington's (that didn't affect them locking up) that caused my M3S90 to choke.

As far as other problems with Benelli's, take a look at this thread
http://www.tacticalforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000144.html

NJW in AZ
 
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