Does a 3/8" thick knife have better stopping power than a 1/4" knife?

G

Glamdring

New member
Just curious if your were going to be stabbed by a knife would you care if it was 3/8" [.375"] or 1/4" [.250"]? Assumine same length and width?

After all that is slightly more difference in size than between a 9mm [.355"] and a 45 [.452"].

OR I suppose to be more accurate in comparion say an ice pick that is either 3/8" or 1/4" in diameter.
 
OTHER THAN THE PWC.....

one important consideration is the design of the blade. the type of blade cross section is important in figuring what the wound cavity will look like and how it will bleed out. in the icepick comparison, thin puncture wounds seal themselves off fairly well. in the days when rapiers were the weapon of choice, experts in sword play knew they had to make a hole in vital organ or blood vessel to kill.
this brings us back to the bullet analogy a .22 cal hole in the heart is better than a .50 caliber hole in the shoulder. that is a far as killing goes. stopping an attack is another matter.
surprisingly few people died from rapier wounds compared to those that did from slashing cutlass wounds. in the 1500's and 1600's in Europe there was a great debate on which type of blade was the most effective in combat, stabbing or slashing. in the end the "civilized" gentleman carried a rapier as it was considered the weapon requiring more skill to use and more controlable in the to wound or kill choice. however, the weapon of choice for those intersted in "the quick kill" continued to be a cutlass type weapon slightly curved for a slashing cut with a triangular cross section for large PWC in the stab.
a study of bayonet design will also show which cross sections of blade design bleed out the best and withdraw from the wound the best.
 
knives have the terror factor...

most people i know that have not been trained in anti-blade techniques are in terror of knives. i guess we know instinctively how much damage a sharp blade can do. the Samuri sword has been called the ultimate close combat weapon. indeed in the hands of a master it can "stop" an opponent faster than any firearm as the attackers head or arm falls to the ground. it is even possible to completely cut the body in two with a an expertly used fine sword.
the difference in my mind is like unto hunting deer with a bow or a gun. the bow or sword requires a strict regimen of training and almost daily practice to be proficent. the handgun is somewhat easier, although not much, to use effectively.
 
The expertise of the knifor would be more important than the design of the knife as regards to the damage to the knifee.

Sam...been stuck, been cut; luckily neither by an expert.
 
I don't believe that blade width hs an effect on "stopping power" (if knles have stopping power) but an 8-10 inch 3/8 inch thick blade bowie knife has tremendous chopping capability which a blade 1/4 inch thick or less cannot match. I have a 9 inch 3/8 inch thicl Randall bowie knife whose ability to chop through things is remarkable.
 
if you believe.....

that your .25 auto is more effective at producing damage to the human body than even a medium sword or large knife you need to sit down and think a little. this is the very type of Anglo-Saxon prejudice against blade weapons in favor of firearms that has fueled the laws against knives as defensive weapons.

i will assure you (given a certain amount of training on my part) that if i am within 21 ft. of you and you have a pocket .25 and i have properly designed big knife or short sword that i can open at least several of your arteries or cut off one of your arms and probably open your abdomen before you "stop" me with the .25. i will allow that i will probably take a hit or two and may even die later from them but that will make no difference to you because you would be dead in minutes. the purpose of this discourse is not bragging. we have enough of that in here latley, it is simply to warn you.

NEVER DISCOUNT THE DANGER OF A DETIRMINED ATTACKER AND EVEN A MEDIUM SHARP BLADE.

if you don't believe this take a haunch of meat and shoot it with you .25 observe the hole. now take an ordinary butcher knife from your kitchen drawer and stab the meat. observe the hole. since we can not count on "hydrostatic" damage from the .25.........

nuff said.
 
Pay close attention to what riddleofsteel says in his last post. He is absolutely corretc! And yes, I do believe I could do more damage with my Katana than with most .25 ACP automatics.
 
People forget so soon...

Remember Flimflam? He's the pawnbroker in Florida who turned down a guy on a NICS, and then had the guy come back with a katana, and attempt to skewer and slice & dice him... He took several cuts/stabs, including a through & through while attempting to reach a weapon, and eventually took the guy out with a .25.

That's real world, folks...
 
A friend of my father was once shot 10 times with a Mauser .25ACP. Being justafiably provoked he promptly killed the man who had shot him with the .25ACP. He had dinner at our house three weeks later.
That's the real world too. One or two incidents do not define the real world.
 
It's a question of skill.

A wannabe ninja with no idea how to use a bladed weapon is not nearly the same threat as somebody who knows how to use one.

With that said, how many of us would want to try and stop a Nepalese Ghorka armed with a Kukhri within 25 feet with that .25 auto?

Personally sharp things scare me. I do not want to ever get hacked or stabbed by anything more deadly than a plastic butterknife. :)
 
How many of us would want to face a typical poster on this forum armed with a katana armed with only a 25? :D

I am not as well trained as say Spectre when it comes to bladed weapons but even I know the basics.
 
Tueller drills. We do these in the Academy, and I'm here to tell you, a Tueller drill will open your eyes as far as knives go.

Get an ASP Red Gun, a toy pistol or something safe that'll fit in your favorite holster. Make sure that the weapon you are using is completely safe.

Give a buddy something that resembles a knife, again make sure that it's totally safe. A magic marker is nice for making big red marks that get the point across.

Have your buddy stand 20 feet away from you, and start having a conversation.

Sometime during the conversation, at your buddy's decision, have him yank out the knife and charge you.

Attempt to draw and 'shoot' your buddy as he's charging.

Like I said, it's an eye-opener.

LawDog
 
Lawdog is right. The Tueller drill is a real eye opener. Try it with safe equipment if you can. You will find that it is a real eye opener.
 
I wouldn't say that a particular blade of a certain thickness is superior to another blade of a lesser thickness. Like bullets, it's where you put it that counts. Remember that scene from the Kirk Douglas movie, Spartacus, where the Gladiator instructor was training the novices as to where to cut a man to disable and where to put the blade to kill?
 
One thing on the flimflam incident......the area behind the desk they were struggling could have interferred with an untrained user trying to slash with the sword....the kid primarily resorted to stabbing and it was not a real katana, it was a imitation "martial art" straight bladed ninja thing....at least that is my impression from talking with flimflam. I have seen skilled people work with bamboo swords and if the kid would have any real inkling about there usage he might have suceeded in killing flimflam, as it was it was touch and go. And no the .25 was not the first option for self defense, it was what he could get hold of while pulling the blade from his side and fighting the kid at the same time.....and yeah thats real world, its not the perfectly fast draw with the model 19 and two the chest one to the head...although he surely would have preferred that, but he kept fighting after being greiviously wounded and was on the point of bleeding out--the point being that even a non trained kid with a not so great sword can do immense damage with stabbing, not even resorting to the "katana's" strength the slash....bladed weapons are very dangerous, with a skilled user they are indeed deadly.........fubsy.
 
Hardball,

Neither would I, nor would flimflam....it was a pistol he has carried everyday in his front pockett for years, he carries a glock daily and has several loaded weapons stashed around the store, the problem was with the initial attack with its subsequent severe wounding(deeper penetration would have hit his heart, but the blade was deflected by the ribcage), he was seperated from his glock, and as the attack was pressed the kid unknowing managed to get between him and a loaded firearm, while taking several stab wounds and retreating with the kid in hot pursuit, the scenario didnt allow for the time to actually acquire one of the other loaded firearms in the back room before being run through side to side, at that point the realization set in that he was going to die. He has told me that at that point while transfixed with the blade and still struggling with the kid, he grabs the blade and trys to control the blade and pull it out of himself, he remembers that 25acp, (its likes keys or a pocket knife it goes in his pockett every day), when his hand touches that 25acp he KNEW he was gonna win......the mind does funny things under severe stress, he had already taken 5 stab wounds, some quite severe prior to being able to inflict any stopping damage to this kid....Im just glad he had that 25acp in his pockett....fubsy.
 
Thing about knives, you can dictate the nature of the wound. With guns, a hole is a hole; the most you can hope for is to put it in a good place. But once you thrust into tissue with a knife, that's where the real dynamics of blade play come out. Sure, you could just extract after a thrust to the midsection. You could also turn the blade 90 degrees and pull to the left.

Now, fubsy, to apply that to your question, a 1/4" blade might give an advantage in slicing power once embedded in tissue. That means more options, translating into more "stopping power". On the other hand, if you can get the thicker knife moving (helps if it's real sharp), it will leave a wider wound channel behind, less likely to seal and limit blood loss.
 
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