Documented risks of SOB carry

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No, there haven't been examples in this thread. There have been two cases of somebody saying, "I once knew somebody who fell on something that WAS NOT a gun, and now has some form of injury, but I don't know what it is."

That isn't exactly the well-documented sources I had in mind.
 
So you just disregard personal experience but put faith in something you read on the internet? Real productive thought process you have going for you there.

As for your credentials, even if you are a chiropractor, my father-n-law just pointed out to me that not a single accredited academic university in the country offers such a degree. You are definitely not a medical doctor. He also pointed out that I have more medical training as a one time EMT than a chiropractor receives. It is like me claiming I am a doctor because I have a masters degree in psychology.
 
Nigelcorn,

It is commonly accepted that falling on a hard object that impacts the spine can result in spinal injury and may result in some level of paralysis.

If you feel that there is evidence that the commonly accepted premise is in error, you should provide that evidence (preferably in the form of a documented medical opinion or a well-supported medical paper) that supports your position.

The idea that someone can suddenly decide that accepted knowledge is suspect and then demand that everyone else scramble around to find evidence that the world really IS round is nonsense. If you don't believe the world is round then you get to figure out how to prove it.

Best of luck.
 
Well, I can only go by my own experience. I have fallen flat on my back more than once. The last time was recent enough to think, "Damn, I'm glad I don't carry SOB!" while I was laying there collecting myself.

That's good enough for me, and I couldn't care less what anybody uses that info for.
 
Man, it's been one heckuva day.
First I find out PBP is the King of Canada.
Then John tells me the world is round.

What next... Santa's not real? :eek:
 
John- You realize you are asking me to prove a negative, right? Care to explain how that is possible?

That link to another thread on SOB carry was interesting. A good example, thanks for that. As a side note, the person who was trying to impress everyone with his "medical knowledge" (who is an MD, by the way) is completely wrong with what he said in that thread. That he was wrong is documented, and can easily be referenced, but hey, he is an MD, so it must be correct.

PBP- I don't think the scope of this thread includes my credentials. Your father in law should stick to what he knows. For the record, a chiropractor is a doctor, as is a dentist, as is a podiatrist, etc. Doctor doesn't mean only MD. Besides, as I said in my personal message where I thought it was more appropriate to talk about this, I know for a fact that I have more training on spinal cord injuries than the majority of MDs, with the possible exception of a spinal surgeon. I work with a lot of MD's, and have a surgeon in my office, and I can tell you that just because somebody is an MD doesn't mean they aren't an idiot, or know everything health related. As I told you in my PM, I taught a class to a group of MD's last week where I had to go over BASIC anatomy of intrinsic muscles in the back before we could continue.


So, again, let me restate this because it apparently isn't getting through. I am not personally insulting anybody, or your opinion. I am asking if anybody has any documented evidence of this. It is commonly said that the risks of SOB are "well documented," so I am simply asking where this documentation is. Nothing else.
 
a chiropractor is a doctor
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Sorry, they are not.

A doctor abides by the hypocratic "first, do no harm" philosophy. Chiropractors have been proven again and again to be far more likely to hurt their patients than help them. If they were responsible doctors, they would quit the practice of chiropracty immediately. Their methods are not based on science, but rather pseudoscientific hogwash.

They are no better than naturopathic kooks who will prescribe a drop of water in which a dead spider was marinaded, diluted in a ratio of 1 to 1,000,000 with regular water.

The opinions of a chiropractor on SOB carry are less than worthless. If they engage in the dangerous fraud that is chiropracty, they will likely spread any other dangerous myth you can think of.
 
Our local gunshop owner is still on crutches, lucky to be walking. He flipped his car, carrying a Glock center of back, and, his spinal cord was partially severed.

Do a search for Mas Ayoob. He's done a ton of research on this topic. Hope everyone is having a Merry Christmas, and, NOT carrying center of back...
 
B. Lahey, why don't you tell us what you really think?

By the way, the statistical risks of going to a DC vs. an MD are widely available and published. I know what the risks are, do you? I have the maximum available amount of malpractice available (many millions), and this year I will pay $745 for that malpractice. Care to guess what the typical MD would pay for the same malpractice? Again, those numbers are based on statistical likelihood of injury.

I guess who needs that when you already know everything?
 
John- You realize you are asking me to prove a negative, right? Care to explain how that is possible?
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You came up with the very unlikely idea that falling on a hard object that impacts the spine will not cause spinal injury. The burden of proof is on therefore on you. If proving that proposition requires proving a negative then you're in a bad way, but you put yourself there, I didn't. I didn't ask you to prove anything I just pointed out that it's unreasonable for you to expect others to disprove your somewhat unorthodox proposition. As I said before, if you believe the world is not round, you get to come up with the evidence to prove it, it's unreasonable to expect others to set you straight by coming up with hard evidence.
It is commonly said that the risks of SOB are "well documented," so I am simply asking where this documentation is.
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"Well documented" doesn't have to mean that there is a large volume of medically documented injuries of this type available online, it can also mean that medical experts believe that SOB carry is a bad idea because it can cause spinal injury in a fall.

In other words, one doesn't have to find a person who's actually eaten a rotten egg to prove that it's a bad idea, it's quite reasonable to find a person who knows a lot about/has a lot of experience with rotten eggs and ask him for his expert opinion. ;)

By the way, the discussion of chiropractor vs medical doctor on this thread is now officially over.​
 
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Nigel,

I only know of one ND with the SOB carry method. A fellow deputy, on his way to training was driving down from the mountains west of Boulder. His shirt nudged off the safety and his weight depressed the grip safety. Who knows what pulled the trigger on his M1911, but the ND left a crease on one of his cheeks and a hole in the seat, floorboard, and muffler of his take home cruiser.

I have had the safety on my Colt push to off, when twisting with my pistol in a pancake holster at the 3:00 position.
 
Keep in mind Dresden... while your word is good enough for us, the OP has made it clear that without "documentation" your word means nothing.

But oddly enough, he thinks we're all going to believe him when he says he's a doctor... where's HIS documentation?

:rolleyes:
 
While carrying SOB, Go down on a motorcycle and slide down the road 100ft or so, tumble a few times, landing on your back and sliding some more. Holes ripped in left and right groin(no documented proof but keys in left front pocket,knife in rt). Lower back lacerated to spine. Spinal cord partially severed and SI joints injured. Did the ER report state back injuries caused by weapon carried SOB? No. Did ER Dr. tell us things in pockets and gun probably aided to extent of injuries. Sure did. Happened to a friend of mine when we were all out riding. He still has his SIG he was carrying. Keeps it as a momento. We recovered it in a yard it came to rest in. Left side was destroyed where he slid on it and it had tissue jammed in hammer. Happy Holidays!
 
Guys, I think I am being misunderstood here, I am not trying to convince you of anything. I never had as my intention that more people would carry SOB because of this post. I don't care if you don't believe my credentials. I didn't even offer my opinion as to what method of carry is best.

In fact, I don't carry SOB. I merely asked for this documentation that is so readily available. That is it. If it is nothing more than personal opinion, that is fine, but maybe that should be the statement instead of, "it is well documented." There is a big difference.

As to my personal opinion, I already stated that I don't carry SOB. That doesn't mean I don't do it because of fear, but because it is uncomfortable when sitting. I think it maybe does increase the risk of spinal cord injury, but that increased risk is small enough that I wouldn't base my decision on it. I happen to be able to defend my position based on 4 years of undergrad and 4 years of professional school. I know enough anatomy to know what is necessary to cause that type of injury. SOB might increase the risk, again, but it would be a small increase. That is my opinion. Take it or leave it, it doesn't affect me at all.

As to not believe my credentials, I don't really care. I can give a state license number, but I don't really think it will change anything. Why don't we just leave it at this; we are all stating our personal opinions. Some might be worth more than others, but they are all just personal opinions.
 
It's your back,if you want to risk it,be your guest.

As for me,I like to have my handgun where I can control it and reach it from the front or side,preferably in some kind of holster.
 
So, I take it that even though it is very easy to say that the risks are well documented, what it comes down to is that by "well documented" you mean that you personally don't think it is a good idea based on your own experience of........
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WE HAVE A WINNER!!! Far too many base their "evidence" on myths and mythology, or choose to focus on the unusual rather than the normal. I've known literally hundreds of officers who have carried cuffs SOB without any injuries. I've also known an officer who carried OWB and ruptured his gut when he got slammed against a loading dock on the pistol side. Yet we don't hear about how dangerous carrying OWB is. IMO the dangers of SOB carry are grossly overstated, and actually frequently misstated, as most advocates of SOB carry advocate not carrying dead center of the back, but instead off to one side slightly, so even if there is a fall it wouldn't cause the gun to hit the spinal cord.
 
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