Doctors and firearms owners

jimpeel

New member
An interesting math excercise posted to the time.com boards.A recent article in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer concerned accidental deaths caused by physicians, from research of Laura Key USA.
This triggered a chain of thought that resulted in the person cruising the web finding some statistics and doing a few calculations.

Number of physicians in the US = 700,000

Accidental deaths caused by physicians per year = 120,000

Accidental deaths/physician = 0.171

Number of gun owners in the US = 80,000,000

Number of accidental gun deaths/year (all age groups) =1,500

Accidental deaths/gun owner = 0.00001875

Ratio 0.171 / 0.00001875 = 9120

Therefore, Doctors are approximately 9000 times more dangerous than gun owners.




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Gun Control: The proposition that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own panty hose, is more acceptable than allowing that same woman to defend herself with a firearm.
 
No one wants to get rid of doctors, though ;)

So, excuses and protests will be made about your logic. Just like auto vehicles, swimming pools, hot tubs, icy sidewalks, plastic bags, stairwells and baseballs, et al.



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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
But of course, mon frère!

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Gun Control: The proposition that a woman found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her own panty hose, is more acceptable than allowing that same woman to defend herself with a firearm.
 
After spending the last 36 hours in the "Company of Greatness,{just ask any one of them}". I believe I would not be opposed to thinning the herd a bit. Maybe doing away with them altogether is a bit over the top, but the vast majority of them need to realize that they are, first off, no different than the unwashed masses. I will say the look was worth it though when I told "Young Longface" I preffered the company of my dog, my wife and my cyber family, to his if this was indeed the last hurrah.

Rich
aka Hal
 
What if your good friend, shooting and hunting buddy is one of those Grandiose Surgeons? This one may or may not be a
person RAE describes while in the OR. I don't think so because if you page Dr. B and he happens to be in surgery the person in charge of everyones pagers will get you on the speaker phone with him as long as you tell them that the call is about "monkey business"
There are dicks in every walk of life but don't pick on the docs.
HankL

[This message has been edited by HankL (edited January 13, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HankL:
What if your good friend, shooting and hunting buddy is one of those Grandiose Surgeons? This one may or may not be a
person RAE describes while in the OR. I don't think so because if you page Dr. B and he happens to be in surgery the person in charge of everyones pagers will get you on the speaker phone with him as long as you tell them that the call is about "monkey business"
There are dicks in every walk of life but don't pick on the docs.
HankL [/quote]
Pretty much proves my point Hank. WTF makes these guys so special they feel they deserve this kind of special treatment? Anybody calls me at work, or the huge vast majority of working stiffs that I know, and tells em it's just a call to BS and no such thing happens. Sorry, I don't buy into the benevolent medical profession crap anymore than I do Santa and his band of elves. Yeah, the are some docs with a genuine concern for a patients well being. Too bad they are DVM's instead of MD's. Those numbers above are real. These people used to fight disease and suffering. Now all they fight is litigation and the fear of litigation. The only concern I saw in the last 3 days came when I was asked if I had any allergies. When I replied I was allergic to Iodine, the concern was evident in the face of "His Reigning Resident" as he looked at my iodine swabbed wrist where the IV was. Yeah that was concern. Concern that "Oh $hit,we gonna be screwed and sued" Not concern that there was a danger to me from it.
 
Ease up guys.....Some of the Doctors that I know are the good guys.
When I have to visit my family doctor, we always end up talking guns....this guy loves shooting. So please dont lump them all together.

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C.A.V.U.
 
Many Medical Doctors are on our side. Here’s a couple examples:

1) Doctors for Integrity in Policy Research
http://www.dipr.org/index.html


2) Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership
Dr. Tim Wheeler
http://www.claremont.org/1_drgo.cfm

Dr. Wheeler has been such a thorn in the side of gun-snatchers that the
grabbers used the title of his organization in a url to defame him. His
correct url is above.
-----

Several MDs have gone through our CHL classes, typically bringing their spouses along.

One MD came through with his wife (a school teacher) and two adult children and THEIR spouses.



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Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 
I can't claim any personal knowledge of high-ranking pro-gun MDs, but I've sold a few guns to docs of all stripes, and gone shooting with some.

It's becoming more and more apparent that the top brass in a large number of orgs, like AMA and NEA, are *seriously* out of touch with the plebes. Elitism at its finest. :(

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"If your determination is fixed, I do not counsel you to despair. Few things are impossible to diligence and skill. Great works are performed not by strength, but perseverance."
-- Samuel Johnson
 
Coinneach, it is not just those orginizations that don't seem to know what the rank and file members say and believe. The Fraternal Order of Police is another glaring example of elitism at its worst.

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You are... What you do... When it counts.
The Masao
 
Mom's words are ringing in my ears. It may be cliche, but if you can't say anything nice,,,,,,

Re:CCW and doctors. Nice to hear, but around here most of 'em don't feel the need. When they want to carry, the "Royal Title" of doctor is enough reason. On call 7 by 24 don't ya know, and they do carry drugs sometimes that a crazed addict may want. Too bad they fail to see that 100% of the women carry something a rapist wants 100% of the time.

[This message has been edited by RAE (edited January 15, 2000).]
 
Offhand, I know of three medical doctors who have contributed a lot as TFL members. Lord only knows how many medical folks are using crytpic user names... ;)

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Either you believe in the Second Amendment or you don't.
Stick it to 'em! RKBA!
 
Gee, whats up with the anti-physician attitude. Its just a profession, like any other. It has its share of morons. FWIW, I have met few physicians who have a "God complex". You might be surprised to find that many are pro-gun, as many thinking people are.
Rae: Residents are in training. Cut them some slack. FYI, the concern for iodine allergy is based on the use of it in radiographic procedures. That little bit they used to sanitize your IV site in not a cause for concern.
 
nobody: <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>FYI, the concern for iodine allergy is based on the use of it in radiographic procedures. That little bit they used to sanitize your IV site in not a cause for concern.[/quote]
Please reread my post. The concern was not mine, but the doctor's. I repeat, the concern was not mine, the concern was the doctors. Do you see what I'm saying? I knew that a swab of iodine on my wrist was of little to no concern, but the FIRST reaction of said doctor upon learning of my reaction to iodine was to shift his eyes to the IV. After reading your profile, it's evident that your attitude comes from your occupation. You do nothing but further my point that the medical profession preaches more than reaches. Doctoring basic 101 should be the art of listening. Typical to dismiss as the rantings of the unwashed. Excuse me for not dying last week, but why should I cut anybody some slack for learning based on their profession? I'll cut a newbie to anything slack,be it medical or burger and fries.


[This message has been edited by RAE (edited January 16, 2000).]
 
How, exactly, did the medical profession fail in your case? So, the young Doctor shifted his eyes to your IV site. Did he voice concern over the fact that they used betadine to clean your skin, or can you read his mind.
"These people used to fight disease and suffering. Now all they fight is litigation and the fear of litigation." Is this a symptom of a failing medical profession, or rather a symptom of our increasing litigous society.?
Gee, now I know how the police officers feel when they are stereotyped.
 
Ok, I'll try to keep this civil. No there was no verbal concern voiced. There didn't need to be, and no I didn't need to read his mind. Cause and effect were enough, or in this case, the reaction to the information. If I told you your fly was open, would you look down? If I saw you glance down, would that imply that I read your mind? Of course not. Same aplies here. Cause, effect. Action, reaction. Where exactly do you draw the conclusion that I feel the medical profession faild me? I really want to know, and am trying not to be argumentative about it. As far as fear of litigation is concerned, yes it is a failing of the system. But I ask you, how much a part of the system is the medical profession? Who testifies against a doctor? Any time you place the enormous power and authority that doctors have into the hands of such a small group, the potential for it to corrupt is absolute. How many people blindly follow doctors orders, just because the doctor said so?

Sterotype is nothing more than the impression given. Not at any time did I ever use the terms arrogant or God complex. What I did refer to is the general feeling that doctors should be obeyed, simply because they are doctors. They have, in the last 30 years, established their own form of aristocracy. Doctors are just catching the heat this time because it is the topic. The same could be said for any profession, or for that matter any professional. This country was built by amateurs, and over the last couple of hundred years has fallen into the hands of the professionals. It is my firm belief, that doctors will eventually become the downfall of the USA, if not the world in general. Face it, someday, somewhere, some doctor is going to develop a method of extending the human life. For all the advances we have, people still don't live much beyond 100. Sure more of them are living to a greater age on average, but the guy/girl that finds a way to make people live to be 300 is going to be a god. Count on it. Can you imagine any group that should have that kind of power and influence? Think they are going to be benevolent?
 
"Ok, I'll try to keep this civil."
Well, why wouldn't you?

"No there was no verbal concern voiced. There didn't need to be, and no I didn't need to read his mind. Cause and effect were enough, or in this case, the reaction to the information..."
Do you know what Non-Sequitor means?

" Where exactly do you draw the conclusion that I feel the medical profession faild me?"
Well then, what exactly is the source of your animosity to physicians?

"As far as fear of litigation is concerned, yes it is a failing of the system. But I ask you, how much a part of the system is the medical profession? Who testifies against a doctor?"
Negligent physicians deserved to be sued.

"Any time you place the enormous power and authority that doctors have into the hands of such a small group, the potential for it to corrupt is absolute."
Where do they hold such power?

"How many people blindly follow doctors orders, just because the doctor said so?"
I don't know how many, but those that do are idiots. Doctors are just like plumbers and mechanics. They work for you. I tell all my patients exactly that.

"Sterotype is nothing more than the impression given."
And using that impression gathered from a small sample to draw conclusions about a group as a whole.

"What I did refer to is the general feeling that doctors should be obeyed, simply because they are doctors."
Obeyed by whom? The patient or the staff?

"They have, in the last 30 years, established their own form of aristocracy."
Aristocracy? Last time I checked, physicians had to earn their title through about 12 years of training. Really, they are just regular people.

"Doctors are just catching the heat this time because it is the topic."
Why is it the topic? What does it have to do with gun rights?

"The same could be said for any profession, or for that matter any professional. This country was built by amateurs, and over the last couple of hundred years has fallen into the hands of the professionals."
I don't know who built this country, but if I am sick, I don't want an amateur working on me.

"It is my firm belief, that doctors will eventually become the downfall of the USA, if not the world in general."
You have some pretty far out beliefs.

"Face it, someday, somewhere, some doctor is going to develop a method of extending the human life. For all the advances we have, people still don't live much beyond 100."
At the last turn of the century, people didn't live much beyond 50.

"Sure more of them are living to a greater age on average, but the guy/girl that finds a way to make people live to be 300 is going to be a god. Count on it."
I believe the design limit is about 120 years.

"Can you imagine any group that should have that kind of power and influence? Think they are going to be benevolent?"
Power and influence over what? I think you should worry more about your insurance company or HMO. Thats where the real power lies.

Your entitled to your opinion. I'm sure you have a good basis for it. I think, however, you are wrong to stereotype an entire profession based on your limited experiences.
If it were not for physicians and other medical scientists, people would still be dying of strep throat. Do you have children? Has any one of them ever had strep throat? Think about it.

Best regards
Allen Raiford (I would put M.D. behind my name, but I wouldn't want you to think I am being aristocratic)


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Who Dares, Wins!

[This message has been edited by nobody (edited January 16, 2000).]
 
Wow!

All I know is that lawyers and doctors still say they "practice"! That, to me, means "not perfect, and still able to make mistakes".

My father is a doctor and he mostly practices on himself. Once he cut his lip when he had a speaker he was mounting fall on him. When we found him he was in the bathroom sewing up his own lip!

The neighbors trusted him to "practice" on them because more than once our dining room table was used for field surgery.

And do you know what he liked to do best? Pull weeds, till the soil and buck the hay.

I too have met a few doctors with the "God complex" that Nobody described.

This is not in defense of doctors, but to advise restraint on that broad brush of blame that we seem far too quick to use.

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John/az

"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!

[This message has been edited by John/az2 (edited January 16, 2000).]
 
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