Do you use the hash marks on scope Reticle
- Thread starter Colorado Redneck
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Colorado Redneck
New member
Fuddley....lol
Well, ya figures me right. Only I shoot prairie dogs fairly often, and use the knobs for elevation. Same with deer and antelope. The suggestion to use the hash marks for windage is useful. Where I shoot the wind is usually variable and gusty. So it can be hard to know exactly how much drift to account for. But the hash marks would be a consistent indicator, and an improvement over Kentucky windage.
Well, ya figures me right. Only I shoot prairie dogs fairly often, and use the knobs for elevation. Same with deer and antelope. The suggestion to use the hash marks for windage is useful. Where I shoot the wind is usually variable and gusty. So it can be hard to know exactly how much drift to account for. But the hash marks would be a consistent indicator, and an improvement over Kentucky windage.reynolds357
New member
Second focal plane hash marks are about the stupidest thing I have seen in a long time.I have recently purchased scopes that have Hash marks on the reticle. These "additions" are essentially useless because on the units I have they are only valid at the highest power magnification. As well, there are no obvious indicators of the true center of the cross hairs, except on a Burris Avenger....sorry....Fullfield that has an illuminated + at the center point. The scopes themselves have lots of good features, including the ability to re zero, consistent and repeatable elevation and windage adjustments, nice clear optics. But the over abundance of hash marks are confusing when trying to aim at a small target at a distance...prairie dogs in grass and weeds. This has got me wondering if this reticle type is really used by shooters. I am interested in thoughts and opinions.
Disclaimer....I know the solution to my frustration is to buy scopes without this type of reticle.
reynolds357
New member
"Tactical pros" use FFP.
[smh]
Just me, but looking at those reticles I just wanna shout "I have the conn! Ready tube #1. Range 3 zero zero zero. Bearing one six zero degrees. Lt, calculate firing solution."
Or I could just look through a duplex and determine if the vitals are framed or not and adjust hold over or under. And if I miss that African Pigmy Mouse at 400 meters, well it gets to live another day.
No offense to those so inclined
-jb, missed that day in math class
Just me, but looking at those reticles I just wanna shout "I have the conn! Ready tube #1. Range 3 zero zero zero. Bearing one six zero degrees. Lt, calculate firing solution."
Or I could just look through a duplex and determine if the vitals are framed or not and adjust hold over or under. And if I miss that African Pigmy Mouse at 400 meters, well it gets to live another day.
No offense to those so inclined
-jb, missed that day in math class
I use them quite often, especially on my 22's shot at ranges beyond 50 yards.
This is only an issue with scopes with the top end magnification over 10-12X.
all of my hunting scopes are in the 1-4X, 2-7X, or 3-9X range. They are kept on the lowest magnification 95% of the time. I've made hits at 200+ yards with scopes set on 2X. If I need more magnification I go to the highest magnification. I've NEVER fired any of my rifles with the magnification anywhere between the lowest and highest settings.
On target scopes which go 20X or sometimes more, there are times where the middle range is needed. But there are no disadvantages to having long range hash marks on a hunting rifle. On a pure target rifle twisting dials are a better option.
Even if you have the dots perfectly calibrated for your load the game isn't going to always be at exactly 200, 250, or 300 yards. It will usually be at 213, or 265 yards. You still have to get to the range and see where you hit in relation to the scope.
I've found that with most common hunting cartridges zeroed at 100 yards the 1st hash mark is close enough at 200 and the others close enough to hit big game at 250, 300, 350, and 400 depending on the exact scope.
My 30-06 is almost dead on at the above ranges. My 308 still needs a bit of hold over. But it is a lot easier to hold 4" high than 4'. And while dials are more precise, dots on the scope are a lot faster.
This is only an issue with scopes with the top end magnification over 10-12X.
all of my hunting scopes are in the 1-4X, 2-7X, or 3-9X range. They are kept on the lowest magnification 95% of the time. I've made hits at 200+ yards with scopes set on 2X. If I need more magnification I go to the highest magnification. I've NEVER fired any of my rifles with the magnification anywhere between the lowest and highest settings.
On target scopes which go 20X or sometimes more, there are times where the middle range is needed. But there are no disadvantages to having long range hash marks on a hunting rifle. On a pure target rifle twisting dials are a better option.
Even if you have the dots perfectly calibrated for your load the game isn't going to always be at exactly 200, 250, or 300 yards. It will usually be at 213, or 265 yards. You still have to get to the range and see where you hit in relation to the scope.
I've found that with most common hunting cartridges zeroed at 100 yards the 1st hash mark is close enough at 200 and the others close enough to hit big game at 250, 300, 350, and 400 depending on the exact scope.
My 30-06 is almost dead on at the above ranges. My 308 still needs a bit of hold over. But it is a lot easier to hold 4" high than 4'. And while dials are more precise, dots on the scope are a lot faster.
stagpanther
New member
Pretty much sums it up.
I have a few graduated reticles. I have a fixed 10X Pride Fowler Rapid Reticle 800.
Fixed power gets rid of the focal plane issue.
I must admit before my cataract surgery,it took a lot of mental focus to use.Details are quite fine.I have not used it lately,after surgery.
To a degree,I think my eyes were an issue,not the tool.
However,IMO,on a stationary target,I can sort through the reticle and find my hold. Thats OK for my low stakes uses. I don't shoot running game.I don't shoot game at very long range.
But my wild imagination tells me that(for example) if I were in a military sniper situation,or a "running boar" situation,my brain would melt trying to maintain that reticle hold while tracking and leading.Too many tinker toys. Better to make the corrections with the W+E knobs and use the reticle center aim point,where the eye naturally goes.
I have a few straight up military style MilDots. Sure,the creative and resourceful shooter CAN use them for a hold reference,if he has doped the dots. But remember a mildot reticle's primary use is rangefinding. And they are usually provided on scopes with turrets. Yes,if you miss,you can often register the miss with the Mildot or any other graduated reticle for a follow up shot.Thats seldom ideal. First round is the money shot.But, a tool for a quick corrected shot can be useful.
I like the Boone and Crockett type reticles(Spaced for trajectory) for moderate ranges. They are spaced to match a trajectory. To get the second plane thing out of the way,yes,if you are using the reticle for hold,use it at max magnification.
(FWIW,I don't own any astronomical magnification scopes.Only one over 10X.
I don't have to deal with 36X.)
For myself,these reticles are not that busy. Yes,you must verify what range the hash mark is valid with your rifle/load. I have no expectation the "300" designation will be on for 300. It might be 265 yds or 340 yds. Thats OK. I can work with it. I do need to verify.
But if you have a decent range estimate,the marks give you a very good Kentucky Windage reference that is just as good as the center crosshair at the designated range. They sure narrow down the inevitable true Kentucky holds between the hashmarks. Like between 300 and 400 . Interpolate.
Typically,on the B+C and similar reticles,the length of the hashmark will correspond to SOME 90 deg wind offset. It might be 10mph. Or it might be 8 or 12 mph. You have to verify it. But then you do have a useful tool.
I have a Burris compact 6X that they custom installed a ballistic plex reticle for me. Its a real nice scope on my BRNO 22 Magnum semi auto.
Its made for some fun prairie dogging.
We all have different eyes,different abilities to distinguish fine detail.
And we have different skill levels with ballistics and geometry.
No one tool will suit us all. So choose the tool that works for you,and get good with it. Or.accept its the wrong tool for you and try something else.
Another person can educate me on how to use a reticle,just as a carpenter can show me how useful a speed square is.
But only you can decide how your eyes work with a particular reticle.
Fixed power gets rid of the focal plane issue.
I must admit before my cataract surgery,it took a lot of mental focus to use.Details are quite fine.I have not used it lately,after surgery.
To a degree,I think my eyes were an issue,not the tool.
However,IMO,on a stationary target,I can sort through the reticle and find my hold. Thats OK for my low stakes uses. I don't shoot running game.I don't shoot game at very long range.
But my wild imagination tells me that(for example) if I were in a military sniper situation,or a "running boar" situation,my brain would melt trying to maintain that reticle hold while tracking and leading.Too many tinker toys. Better to make the corrections with the W+E knobs and use the reticle center aim point,where the eye naturally goes.
I have a few straight up military style MilDots. Sure,the creative and resourceful shooter CAN use them for a hold reference,if he has doped the dots. But remember a mildot reticle's primary use is rangefinding. And they are usually provided on scopes with turrets. Yes,if you miss,you can often register the miss with the Mildot or any other graduated reticle for a follow up shot.Thats seldom ideal. First round is the money shot.But, a tool for a quick corrected shot can be useful.
I like the Boone and Crockett type reticles(Spaced for trajectory) for moderate ranges. They are spaced to match a trajectory. To get the second plane thing out of the way,yes,if you are using the reticle for hold,use it at max magnification.
(FWIW,I don't own any astronomical magnification scopes.Only one over 10X.
I don't have to deal with 36X.)
For myself,these reticles are not that busy. Yes,you must verify what range the hash mark is valid with your rifle/load. I have no expectation the "300" designation will be on for 300. It might be 265 yds or 340 yds. Thats OK. I can work with it. I do need to verify.
But if you have a decent range estimate,the marks give you a very good Kentucky Windage reference that is just as good as the center crosshair at the designated range. They sure narrow down the inevitable true Kentucky holds between the hashmarks. Like between 300 and 400 . Interpolate.
Typically,on the B+C and similar reticles,the length of the hashmark will correspond to SOME 90 deg wind offset. It might be 10mph. Or it might be 8 or 12 mph. You have to verify it. But then you do have a useful tool.
I have a Burris compact 6X that they custom installed a ballistic plex reticle for me. Its a real nice scope on my BRNO 22 Magnum semi auto.
Its made for some fun prairie dogging.
We all have different eyes,different abilities to distinguish fine detail.
And we have different skill levels with ballistics and geometry.
No one tool will suit us all. So choose the tool that works for you,and get good with it. Or.accept its the wrong tool for you and try something else.
Another person can educate me on how to use a reticle,just as a carpenter can show me how useful a speed square is.
But only you can decide how your eyes work with a particular reticle.
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Nobody has time to dial in the field as a practical matter, especially when you're hunting and seconds count.
The critter might scoot away while you're fidgeting with the magnification ring or trying to count "clicks" up or down.
For the seasonal Fuddley, a fixed 4x (at most) along with the standard hunting reticle, and knowing what the rifle is zero-ed for, ... well, said Fudd is good to go for venison.
Now maybe if you're a SEAL Team sniper perched on the side of an Afghan mountain, 1500-yds from a caravan of terrorist militia, ... that's different.
Nobody has time to dial in the field as a practical matter, especially when you're hunting and seconds count.
The critter might scoot away while you're fidgeting with the magnification ring or trying to count "clicks" up or down.
For the seasonal Fuddley, a fixed 4x (at most) along with the standard hunting reticle, and knowing what the rifle is zero-ed for, ... well, said Fudd is good to go for venison.
Now maybe if you're a SEAL Team sniper perched on the side of an Afghan mountain, 1500-yds from a caravan of terrorist militia, ... that's different.
I dial regularly for targets and game past about 300 yards or so. Most of my big game animals have been shot inside 150, or past 400. Having the gear and ability to anchor an animal that is peacefully grazing at 500 yards or further, as opposed to running and spooked is not a bad thing at all.
Sure, more people need to practice field shooting, at all ranges, but just because you don't does not mean it is not useful, even preferable, for others.
Jake,you have done pretty well at telling us about yourself.and your world.
Thats OK.
I have described several times on TFL that with my primary hunting rifle for the last 20+ years, a 257 AI with a fixed 6X the duplex post to post is right at 2 mils. This rifle.scope weighs 7 lbs
The hanging duplex tip gives me a 100 yd aiming point. The center crosshair is precisely sighted at a lasered 300. The lower standing post hits at 430 yds.
Two mils is near 7 inches. If a pronghorn chest fits post to post,its close enough to 200 yds. I interpolate from there.
If a pronghorn fits from center crosshair to post,its about 400,and I need to crawl through some cactus. If it fits smaller than that,the range is "Too far"
All in a glance through my scope,I can do well enough at ranging and holding to 400 yds. It has served me a lot of antelope backstrap sizzled in garlic butter.
Same ranch,pronghorn,my younger brother has a different style. Thats OK.
It works for him. The two of us walked in before dawn. Sun up,there was a herd about a half mile /1000 yds away. Other side of the fence,a different ranch where people drive around and run the antelope off.
I told brother,"There is your buck. You just need to Geraldo (Rivera) up on him. (Has to do with Geraldo in Afghanistan footage)
So brother has his rifle. One rifle kind of guy. Its an AR-10 T Has a 10X Leupold scope like the GI sniper scope. He has the best Leica laser rangefinder. And he has the deluxe Kestrel wind guage He has ballistic software in his hand. He wore the rifling out on the Badger Barrel that Armalite installed. It now has a Kreiger.
He took off crawling . Lots of prickly pear on this ranch. I stayed put and watched him.
He got to a spot where getting closer would expose him. He ranged them. He read the wind. He twisted knobs. He settled in and shot. One round. Drop dead antelope.
He hit within an inch and a half of his hold point . 308 168 gr Ballistic tip. Varget. Lasered 653 yds.
Backstrap sizzles in garlic butter.
A clean,confident kill.
Its a big world,Jake,and it has some folks who do things different.
Seedy Character
New member
Like Cranky said, duplex reticle on a 7Mag, zeroed at 300 yards. Crosshair is good to 400 yards.Don't worry about hold over. Never had a need for more than 400 yards.
Just got a new scope, Has 5 hash marks for windage and elevation. 2.5-10 power
Will have to see how it does, i may never use them.
My 6-24x is duplex. Fuddley's just fine. Though, the elevation turret is large, outside adjustable and micrometer marked.
Just got a new scope, Has 5 hash marks for windage and elevation. 2.5-10 power
Will have to see how it does, i may never use them.
My 6-24x is duplex. Fuddley's just fine. Though, the elevation turret is large, outside adjustable and micrometer marked.
Funny because the last two pronghorn I’ve taken I dialed elevation and adjusted magnification.Nobody has time to dial in the field as a practical matter, especially when you're hunting and seconds count.
The critter might scoot away while you're fidgeting with the magnification ring or trying to count "clicks" up or down.
For the seasonal Fuddley, a fixed 4x (at most) along with the standard hunting reticle, and knowing what the rifle is zero-ed for, ... well, said Fudd is good to go for venison.
Now maybe if you're a SEAL Team sniper perched on the side of an Afghan mountain, 1500-yds from a caravan of terrorist militia, ... that's different.
The first one I dialed up for 275 yards and my magnification up, then he turned and ran straight at me. I dialed down my elevation and magnification and shot him in the chest at a full run at about 30 yards in front of me.
The last one dialed for 400 yards, once he stood up I sent it and down he went.
It comes down to the individuals ability, confidence, cool head and hunting style.
m&p45acp10+1
New member
I use those hash marks when shooting long range. Once you get past 800 or so yards there is not going to be enough adjustment for the scope to center the cross hairs on the target. Also you will loose sight of the target from recoil. In holding over you have a better chance of tracking your shot to the target.
Also my scopes are all FFP. So no matter the magnification, they measure the same. I can fire a group. If I see that i am two marks right of the center of the target that I was aiming at. I can adjust and see if it is a needed correction, or if I am pulling.
With SFP know what magnification that the measurements work at. Practice with it.
Better yet try learning about long range shooting, then decide on the equipment. Ryan Kleckner has an awesome book out. It is simple, and has a lot of great information. He explains things much better than I ever will be able to.
Also my scopes are all FFP. So no matter the magnification, they measure the same. I can fire a group. If I see that i am two marks right of the center of the target that I was aiming at. I can adjust and see if it is a needed correction, or if I am pulling.
With SFP know what magnification that the measurements work at. Practice with it.
Better yet try learning about long range shooting, then decide on the equipment. Ryan Kleckner has an awesome book out. It is simple, and has a lot of great information. He explains things much better than I ever will be able to.
bacardisteve
New member
I have a couple ffp Scopes and I use the hashmarks for not only wind but elevation as well at times. Nothing tactical about it if a deer pops out at 350yds I know I need 2 moa from my zero hold on that line hold for any wind and squeeze. They don't always give us time to dial so it's nice to have as an option. It can be done with 2nd focal plane as well but more math is involved.